Member Drunken Monk Posted October 10, 2012 Member Share Posted October 10, 2012 I apologize in advance that this question is so specific and may not give way for any proper discussion. Is there any reports as to why Jackie strayed away from big fight scenes for this film and, instead, opted to go for more stunts and flat out action pieces? I suggested to my girlfriend that we watch it as I'm trying to get her into the genre but, in thinking about the film, she may actually like it, but she won't exactly get a hefty dose of martial arts action? Does anyone else feel that this film lacks Jackie's usual fights? Granted, there's the early one against Sam Wong but it seems to say, "Enjoy this because this is all you're getting!" So, does anyone have any info on whether an actual decision was made to go bigger and tone down the one-on-one (or more) fight scenes? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member massa_yoda Posted October 10, 2012 Member Share Posted October 10, 2012 Is there any reports as to why Jackie strayed away from big fight scenes for this film and, instead, opted to go for more stunts and flat out action pieces? Does anyone else feel that this film lacks Jackie's usual fights? Granted, there's the early one against Sam Wong but it seems to say, "Enjoy this because this is all you're getting!" So, does anyone have any info on whether an actual decision was made to go bigger and tone down the one-on-one (or more) fight scenes? I may need to go back and check my sources, but I believe Stanley Tong re-wrote most of the original script in order to make it more appealing internationally. Project S, or Supercop 2, supposedly is close to what the original script looked like. I still love the movie for what it is. Not many fights, but good action. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member TibetanWhiteCrane Posted October 10, 2012 Member Share Posted October 10, 2012 Never having Jc and Yuen Wah square off in the final reel was a lost opportunity of massive scale in my book. Biggest complaint of that film. The same can be said for Thunderbolt, Rumble, First Strike, Mr. Niceguy. His 90's output is a mixed bag for sure. I recently got the HK Warner version of DM 2, having really only seen it a couple times before, twice in the early 00's and once in the mid 90's, and to be honest, I found it a tad underwhelming. My memories were definitely rose tinted. It's not bad at all. But I think I would rank Operation Condor, Crime Story and Who Am I? higher in terms of his 90's films. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Jay Stone Posted October 10, 2012 Member Share Posted October 10, 2012 Yeah, in the '90s it seems the Jackie formula became "no fight at the end" for the most part. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member andi81 Posted October 10, 2012 Member Share Posted October 10, 2012 RUMBLE IN THE BRONX had no endfight because of Jackie's broken ankle...he said it during an interview somewhere....i think the original plan was a big fight with those huge henchmen... THUNDERBOLT was partially a consequence of the broken ankle too... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Drunken Monk Posted October 10, 2012 Author Member Share Posted October 10, 2012 The whole Stanley Tong thing makes sense. It's a shame that Westerners are considered people that don't want to see a solid end fight in a film. I love "Police Story 3" but it does disappoint me on the martial arts action front. With a few additional fights crammed in here and there it would be even better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Jay Stone Posted October 10, 2012 Member Share Posted October 10, 2012 RUMBLE IN THE BRONX had no endfight because of Jackie's broken ankle...he said it during an interview somewhere....i think the original plan was a big fight with those huge henchmen... THUNDERBOLT was partially a consequence of the broken ankle too... Mr. Nice Guy and First Strike have no big fight at the end either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Drunken Monk Posted October 10, 2012 Author Member Share Posted October 10, 2012 "Mr. Nice Guy" has the most, "Where the fuck did that come from?" ending of all of them, I think. It's the cop out to rule all cop outs. We have Jackie Chan as the good guy with Richard Norton as the bad guy and what do we get? A giant dump truck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member TibetanWhiteCrane Posted October 10, 2012 Member Share Posted October 10, 2012 I don't really buy that whole broken ankle thing. I know it broke, and he was somewhat impaired, but I just think he was looking to move away from the hard knocks fight action, and the ankle was a good excuse to transition into the more family friendly style or JC lite as I like to call it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member ShaOW!linDude Posted October 10, 2012 Member Share Posted October 10, 2012 "Mr. Nice Guy" has the most, "Where the fuck did that come from?" ending of all of them, I think. It's the cop out to rule all cop outs. We have Jackie Chan as the good guy with Richard Norton as the bad guy and what do we get? A giant dump truck. Agreed! I know City Hunter is campy as all get out but the end fight in that between the 2 of them is boss!!!! I actually prefer it to Mr. Nice Guy over all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrator KUNG FU BOB Posted October 10, 2012 Administrator Share Posted October 10, 2012 I read somewhere that the reason JC hired Yuen Wah was to go back to the big fight finale formula. But that when they started a bit of rehearsing JC found that Yuen Wah ad really let his skills go, and JC felt that he wasn't up to par to do what he had planned. So he and Stanley Tong came up with the hanging from the helicopter bit to replace the fight ending. So sad. Yuen Wah was out-of-sight in stuff like EASTERN CONDORS. I'd have loved to see JC and Yuen have a huge fight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member andi81 Posted October 10, 2012 Member Share Posted October 10, 2012 I agree with all of you, but one of my biggest disappointments was the POLICE STORY 2 finale....the action at the factory is great, but the fight i was waiting for was Jackie vs the mute guy....but they didn't deliver it....just imagine a 5 minute fightingsequence between the two of them.....a real dream.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator Asmo Posted October 11, 2012 Moderator Share Posted October 11, 2012 I read somewhere that the reason JC hired Yuen Wah was to go back to the big fight finale formula. But that when they started a bit of rehearsing JC found that Yuen Wah ad really let his skills go, and JC felt that he wasn't up to par to do what he had planned. So he and Stanley Tong came up with the hanging from the helicopter bit to replace the fight ending. So sad. Yuen Wah was out-of-sight in stuff like EASTERN CONDORS. I'd have loved to see JC and Yuen have a huge fight. Just a thought, could Yuen Wah have been a replacement for Philip Kwok? I remember Philip Kwok saying in an interview that he originally was choreographing the film (presumably along with Jackie and his stunt team), and that he and Jackie had some great fight scenes against each other. Apparently then he and Jackie didn't see eye to eye and he left or was let go. Assuming the story was the same when he was involved I could have easily seen him playing Yuen Wah's role. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Drunken Monk Posted October 11, 2012 Author Member Share Posted October 11, 2012 Just a thought, could Yuen Wah have been a replacement for Philip Kwok? I remember Philip Kwok saying in an interview that he originally was choreographing the film (presumably along with Jackie and his stunt team), and that he and Jackie had some great fight scenes against each other. Apparently then he and Jackie didn't see eye to eye and he left or was let go. Assuming the story was the same when he was involved I could have easily seen him playing Yuen Wah's role. Wow, I would have loved to have seen that version of "Police Story 3." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Jay Stone Posted October 11, 2012 Member Share Posted October 11, 2012 Just a thought, could Yuen Wah have been a replacement for Philip Kwok? I remember Philip Kwok saying in an interview that he originally was choreographing the film (presumably along with Jackie and his stunt team), and that he and Jackie had some great fight scenes against each other. Apparently then he and Jackie didn't see eye to eye and he left or was let go. Assuming the story was the same when he was involved I could have easily seen him playing Yuen Wah's role. The interview was in Eastern Heroes magazine, and Kwok said he walked off the picture due to not seeing eye to eye with Stanley Tong. That he wasn't using an of the great footage Kwok was getting him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member ToryK Posted October 11, 2012 Member Share Posted October 11, 2012 Just a thought, could Yuen Wah have been a replacement for Philip Kwok? I remember Philip Kwok saying in an interview that he originally was choreographing the film (presumably along with Jackie and his stunt team), and that he and Jackie had some great fight scenes against each other. Apparently then he and Jackie didn't see eye to eye and he left or was let go. Assuming the story was the same when he was involved I could have easily seen him playing Yuen Wah's role. Jackie vs. Philip Kwok? Ah, fuck me, that would have been grand! I'm gonna be thinking about the possibilities all day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Killer Meteor Posted October 11, 2012 Member Share Posted October 11, 2012 Isn't Jackie reputed to keep his stuntment underwraps - once they get a good show, they are pushed way back in the ranks, such as Ken Lo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member TibetanWhiteCrane Posted October 11, 2012 Member Share Posted October 11, 2012 Some say that, I think it's bullshit! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member the moose Posted October 11, 2012 Member Share Posted October 11, 2012 I read somewhere that the reason JC hired Yuen Wah was to go back to the big fight finale formula. But that when they started a bit of rehearsing JC found that Yuen Wah ad really let his skills go, and JC felt that he wasn't up to par to do what he had planned. So he and Stanley Tong came up with the hanging from the helicopter bit to replace the fight ending. So sad. Yuen Wah was out-of-sight in stuff like EASTERN CONDORS. I'd have loved to see JC and Yuen have a huge fight. That is really hard to believe given Yuen Wah's reputation and obvious high skills. He grew up with Jackie and there wouldn't be many other actors better suited to fighting Jackie than him. It may very well be true, but it surprises me and would ruin the high regard i have for Yuen wah for being an amazing on screen martial artist. Yuen Wah at the end of Bury me high squaring off against chin kar lok is as good as you can get. And wow, what about when he and Yuen Biao fought at the end of the iceman cometh - the 2 yuens both at the top of their game pulling off feats of martial arts that even Jackie couldn't pull off. We all know how gifted Yuen Biao is, Yuen Wah was perfect for fighting Biao(who also grew up together) - I really hope what you read wasn't true. But perhaps it was. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Drunken Monk Posted October 11, 2012 Author Member Share Posted October 11, 2012 My question is as to whether there is a vault somewhere featuring at least a smidgen of test footage of Kwok and Jackie going toe to toe! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member the moose Posted October 11, 2012 Member Share Posted October 11, 2012 The best fight in this movie (and I'm sure you would all agree) is when Chan has the sparring match against the mainland soldier trainer - Awesome. Also a great action scene is when Chan, Wah and Yeoh were at the drug dealer compound with spectacular gunfights and explosions. But the rest of the movie just didn't deliver on the martial arts action, I agree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member nectarsis Posted October 11, 2012 Member Share Posted October 11, 2012 That is really hard to believe given Yuen Wah's reputation and obvious high skills. He grew up with Jackie and there wouldn't be many other actors better suited to fighting Jackie than him. It may very well be true, but it surprises me and would ruin the high regard i have for Yuen wah for being an amazing on screen martial artist. Yuen Wah at the end of Bury me high squaring off against chin kar lok is as good as you can get. And wow, what about when he and Yuen Biao fought at the end of the iceman cometh - the 2 yuens both at the top of their game pulling off feats of martial arts that even Jackie couldn't pull off. We all know how gifted Yuen Biao is, Yuen Wah was perfect for fighting Biao(who also grew up together) - I really hope what you read wasn't true. But perhaps it was. I agree.... that makes so little sense. Yuen Wah was a MACHINE throughout the 80's/90's. You aren't that prolific if your skills are under par (or dropping hard as insinuated). My question is as to whether there is a vault somewhere featuring at least a smidgen of test footage of Kwok and Jackie going toe to toe! That would indeed be HUGE...especially as I love both of them on their own, a collaboration would be EPIC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrator KUNG FU BOB Posted October 11, 2012 Administrator Share Posted October 11, 2012 That is really hard to believe given Yuen Wah's reputation and obvious high skills. He grew up with Jackie and there wouldn't be many other actors better suited to fighting Jackie than him. It may very well be true, but it surprises me and would ruin the high regard i have for Yuen wah for being an amazing on screen martial artist. I really hope what you read wasn't true. But perhaps it was. Perhaps he was injured, or just not willing to get wrecked filming an epic fight at that time. Those 15 minute movie fight scenes take a lot out of a person no matter how good a shape they're in. Collin Chou said that he almost quit making action films after fighting Donnie Yen at the end of FLASHPOINT. My question is as to whether there is a vault somewhere featuring at least a smidgen of test footage of Kwok and Jackie going toe to toe! Oh man... I would love to see that! Somebody ask Bey Logan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator Asmo Posted October 12, 2012 Moderator Share Posted October 12, 2012 The interview was in Eastern Heroes magazine, and Kwok said he walked off the picture due to not seeing eye to eye with Stanley Tong. That he wasn't using an of the great footage Kwok was getting him. That sounds right, thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member andi81 Posted December 17, 2012 Member Share Posted December 17, 2012 50(!) minutes of rare stuff: https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=LfTpaLFCsB8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.thumb.jpg.7e45ed939af7cfa32fcf0bddaea2f42e.jpg)
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.