Big Names in Independent Martial Arts Film Production

[YnEoS]

Hello, I just recently joined this forum. I've been a fan of Kung Fu films for a few years now, but for whatever reasons, the people and books that have introduced me to filmmakers from the big studios. Reading a lot of lists and threads here was quite a shock for me, because I've never heard a lot of the films that seem to be the most popular here. I'm eager to explore these new areas that I'd previously been blind to.

I realize there are already several other threads with recommendations into the world of independent Kung Fu films. However I found them a little difficult to navigate through the sea of titles and find a good starting point. I usually find it much easier to study a new area of film-making when I know a bit about the people involved. I was wondering if any of you would be so kind to list the names of people that usually attract you to an independent kung fu film. What actors, choreographer, directors, producers are usually good guarantees that a film is high quality, and what draws you to their style?

Additionally, I was also wondering if there are any books that write about these independent films in detail. I know Bey Logan mentions a few in his book, but mostly just as short footnotes in the careers of more famous figures. Also, if any of you have any other pointers on the best route to getting familiar with these sorts of films, I would very much like to hear them.

Any sort of help or information in this area would be much appreciated.

[TibetanWhiteCrane]

When I think indie directors, I think Lee Tso Nam and Joseph Kuo.

Also, the filmographies from Seasonal Films and Goldig Films are full of excellent titles. The whole taiwanese scene is, I guess, considered indie films. Some of the best indie work came out of there.

It's a little hard when the definition of "indie" is percieved differently from person to person. In regard to old school kung fu 1965-1985, indie for me is more or less everything made outside of Shaw Bros and Golden Harvest. I consider stuff from Goldig, Seasonal, Hong Hwa, First Films etc. indie, cuz those are production companies, as opposed to established studios with standing sets and stages and stuff.

But with that rationale, would I call films from Cinema City, D&B, Golden Princess and so forth, indies? Not really..... so it's not really that cut and dry.

[YnEoS]

I'm not so worried about the terminology, if something gets recommended that isn't actually independent, I won't lose sleep over it. I used the term because I saw it thrown around a few times on this forum and it seemed like a good way to try and indicate the types of films I'm looking to learn more about. Words like 'obscure' seem a lot more problematic since a lot of these films are quite popular on this board.

I can try to use other terms if additional clarification is needed. But judging from your post it seems like we're on the same page and the filmmakers and studios you mentioned are the ones I'd be interested in exploring in more depth.

I don't mean to over-generalize or to try and lump together filmmakers who worked with vastly different resources for different markets. It's just that right now I don't know enough to use more specific terminology.

[teako170]

If you haven't looked at this thread yet, you'll find some of the better indie films, which in turn, will lead you to specific directors over time. I agree with TWC in that Lee Tso Nam is one director to explore further. He has many superb films. Just check out The Hot, the Cool and the Vicious or Shaolin Vs Lama and you should want to see more....

[TibetanWhiteCrane]

The thread Teako links to is a good guide, though perhaps a bit overwhelming at first.

Old school kung fu indie faves of mine....

Eagle's Claw

The Hot, The Cool and The Vicious

Secret Rivals 1-2

Invincible Armour

7 Grandmasters

Fatal Needles vs Fatal Fists

Seven Steps Of Kung Fu

Mystery Of Chessboxing

Duel Of The Seven Tigers

Kung Fu Genius

Hitman In The Hand Of Buddha

The Master Strikes

Snake Deadly Act

Hell's Windstaff

Buddhist Fist

Thundering Mantis

Buddha Assassinator

Tiger Over Wall

Mar's Villa

Rebellious Reign

The Loot

The Challenger

Super Power

The Victim

Incredible Kung Fu Mission

Legend Of A Fighter

Ninja In The Dragon's Den

Shaolin vs Lama

Of course there's many more, but you can't go wrong with any of these.....

[Tosh]

I always think of indies as not being Shaw Brothers or Golden Harvest, it the co-productions that get complicated, and many famous actors are in Indies.

Anyway your about to open a door to some real classic KF, I've always been a Shaw Brother fan first and foremost, but there's no denying the talent pool for these Indies, it doesn't take a huge budget to make a great KF movie, I'd rather see competent fighters anyday, something modern film makers have thrown in the garbage for cg and pop singers.

[Drunken Monk]

Independents are simply a treasure trove of goodies. Not to discount Shaw Brothers films but some of the best films you will find are independents. But then it does depend on what you count as independent. I would typically go with the "anything not Shaw or Golden Harvest" and that makes for a lot of films.

I always thought "The Buddhist Fist" was a great place to start. Truly amazing choreography and a fairly competent story.

Also, you can do no wrong with Jackie Chan's two early efforts, "Drunken Master" and "Snake in the Eagle's Shadow."

[Yang Wu Liang]

Can't really argue with TWC's list (apart from Kung Fu Genius which really grates on me despite some great kng fu).

Some of my favourites not mentioned by TWC are Shaolin Temple Against Lama, Kung Fu Zombie, Iron Monkey (CKT), Unbeaten 28, Born Invincible

[TibetanWhiteCrane]

Yeah, I agree that Kung Fu Genius has a bit of the annoying comedy in it, but when listing indies from the '76-'83 period, kung fu comedy is hard to avoid. It's frustrating, cuz some movies like Fearless Dragons or Method Man has some of the sickest fight action, but then the remaining 3/4 of the films are just unbearable.

[YnEoS]

Thanks for all the film recommendations. The whole independent scene still seems a bit overwhelming, but I'm sure once I dive in things will start becoming easier to navigate.

I know a few names have been tossed out, but I'd still appreciate any information on the people who work on these independents if its out there. I know I'll see re-occurring directors/actors/choreographers on my own once I start watching these. However I've had a few past experiences where when researching on my own I'd find certain re-occurring names and think I'm discovering some talented fairly unknown filmmaker, only to realize they're actually a huge name in the industry that I should've known about forever ago.

To cite the most embarrassing example, when I was first getting into HK action films and knew nothing about them, I happened, by chance, to see several films where Donnie Yen played supporting roles such as Wing Chun and New Dragon Inn. I started noticing when he popped up in movies and remembered enjoying him a lot. Then when I started talking to people and hearing his name get brought up I remember thinking "Holy shit! Other people notice him too?" I had no idea how huge a star he had become in later years.

Here's a more relevant example that will perhaps illustrate the kind of information I'm looking for. I've been looking up a lot of the films that I've seen recommended here, trying to find re-occurring names. One of the names that came up fairly frequently was Ng See Yuen, but I really don't know anything about him. Coincidentally I'm reading Bey Logan's book right now and there's a small section on him. I realized that he's not just some random guy, but actually a big producer in the independent scene who discovered a lot of important talent. So what I'd be curious to know now, is he generally considered a good director in his own right, such that any film he directed will probably be of higher quality? Or is it more the case that he was more in the background with a good eye for talent such that a lot of films he was involved with tend to be good, but not necessarily directly because of him?

[TibetanWhiteCrane]

The latter, Ng See Yuen started Seasonal Films which has a fair amount of classics in its catalogue, but he was like an all hander (director, producer, writer etc.) more than I would say a really strong director as such. Though the early Bruce Leung films, the Hwang Jang Lee films and such that he directed, I all enjoy.

[Drunken Monk]

I've always considered Ng See Yuen a better producer than director but then he did direct both "Secret Rivals 2" and "Invincible Armour" which are certainly considered classics of the genre.

As mentioned earlier on in this thread, Joseph Kuo is a great name to look out for and, as far as actors go, Lee Yi Min starred in some fantastic independent films.

[The Dragon]

The Taiwan indies that produced films like 18 Bronzemen, Master of The Flying Guillotine, and Born Invincible, are all pretty decent classics.

[YnEoS]

Thanks again for all the information.

I just watched The Hot, the Cool, the Vicious and in addition to the involvement of several names already mentioned, I was pleasantly surprised to see Tommy Lee Gam Ming listed as the action choreographer, a name I recognize as the director of To Catch a Thief, the source movie for Ninja Thunderbolt. Looking through his filmography it looks like he choreographed a lot of films that have been mentioned here.

Pretty excited, as I can already tell I'm going to learn about a lot more talented filmmakers as I dive deeper into these films.

[TibetanWhiteCrane]

Tommy Lee's best work as choreographer, or action director as it is mostly called, SEVEN STEPS OF KUNG FU..... don't miss it!