Moderator One Armed Boxer Posted September 12, 2012 Moderator Share Posted September 12, 2012 I actually only watched this movie for the first time last night, having had it sit on my shelf for several years, for some reason I never got around to putting it in my DVD player mainly after reading mostly negative things about it - Chan is heavily doubled, the car chases are horribly undercranked, the movie itself is a bit of a mess etc. So, perhaps due to going into it with pretty low expectations, I found myself thoroughly enjoying it! I think one of the main reasons is that it's completely different from other Chan vehicles (pardon the pun) of that period, which were mostly family friendly movies looking to help him break the international market - 'Rumble in the Bronx', 'Mr Nice Guy', 'First Strike' etc. 'Thunderbolt' is quite the opposite, being quite serious in tone, with Chan being grumpy and aggressive for most of the running time. Perhaps thanks to Sammo Hung's more hard hitting style of action direction, Chan gets pretty bloodied in the movie as well, the scene I'm thinking of inparticular is when his mobile home gets lifted by the crane. As someone who's stated several times on camera he doesn't like to put blood into his movies, it was refreshing to see. My favorite scene of Chan's character though was when he goes into the pachinko parlour to try to find his sisters. Unlike almost all of Chan's other movies were he's the one being provoked, here he gets so riled up that he intentionally instigates a fight with the guys responsible for the kidnapping, by rampaging through the aisles smashing up the machines with a hammer, & then peoples heads, I thought it was great! All in all you've got two great one versus many fight scenes, an impressive stunt scene with the trailer (the part when Chan jumps out of the container as it's about to smash into the house looked very painful) along with some impressive car stunts (when the two guys jump from the outlook stand as the car goes flying through it!), and a shootout that looks like it belongs more in a heroic bloodshed movie than a Chan flick, with people getting gunned down left right and centre. 'Thunderbolt' was a pleasant surprise for me, but as I mentioned my expectations were set low, that's why I'm interested to hear other peoples opinions. Of course the movie has it's downsides, essentially the whole thing can be seen as a love letter to Mitsubishi, which it sometimes definitely is, and Chan was showing signs that he obviously wasn't ready to be acting his age yet, casting two girls who I repeatedly thought were his daughters as his siblings, along with having almost every other girl minus the Caucasian actress be potential love interests. But all in all, pretty good, I have to say I enjoyed this more than the recently watched 'Motorway', which I found to be a little too dreary for my tastes. I2zaH8c94hU Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member ShaOW!linDude Posted September 12, 2012 Member Share Posted September 12, 2012 Man, Thunderbolt is one of my favorite JC movies. (I know for a long time he didn't want it released in the US. I managed to get my hands on a copy via Tai Seng. 3 yrs later and it's all over the place.) You essentially hit all the high notes of the film for me. Now I'm going to have watch this again myself. Been a while. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Reel Power Stunts Posted September 12, 2012 Member Share Posted September 12, 2012 I neither love nor hate it. As a film, it is a mess in terms of structure and pace. I do, however enjoy certain scenes a lot. JC beating up Alien Sit and his thugs in the workshop is fun, & I love the pachinko-parlour scene. Sammo action directs Jackie better than JC does IMHO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member makone Posted September 12, 2012 Member Share Posted September 12, 2012 I always liked it too. I never did understand why it didn`t get the same global attention as his other films did at that time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Keung Posted September 12, 2012 Member Share Posted September 12, 2012 I didn't hate it, but I certainly didn't love it. The thing that pissed me off the most, minus the undercranking, was the odd frame rate / slow-mo type thing during fight scenes. I don't know how to describe it but I'm sure you know what I mean. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Ramji Posted September 12, 2012 Member Share Posted September 12, 2012 Always thought Thunderbolt was awesome. Completely agree about the tone and I for one really got into it. The pachinko parlour fight scene is full of painful looking falls and hardcore choreography and I didn't mind Sammo's blurry fight cam as much as others do as it wasn't used all that much. Agree regarding the jump from the container, that stunt always stuck out in my mind as it does looks really painful although I'm pretty sure it's not Jackie performing it, nevertheless that kind of thing doesn't really bother me as long as the stunt is decent! Another highlight was the Mitsubishi FTO vs Nissan Skyline showdown. My friends were always more into cars than me so informed me what they were (I had no idea) but they used to get pumped and it's definitely an exciting chase scene. Should upgrade from my vcd copy! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Drunken Monk Posted September 12, 2012 Member Share Posted September 12, 2012 You know, despite being a huge Jackie fan, I haven't actually seen this film; largely due to negative reviews pretty much everywhere. I was under the impression it was a film with very little action and, overall, pretty yawn worthy. This thread makes me rethink! I may have to hunt this one down and give it a watch. Thanks guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Keung Posted September 12, 2012 Member Share Posted September 12, 2012 Nice soundtrack as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member blue_skies Posted September 12, 2012 Member Share Posted September 12, 2012 To be honest I remember very little about this movie but I didn't love it nor hate it. it's always been one I've hoped to pick up on DVD so I can re-evaluate it sometime but never got around to it. Was there a scene in this movie involving trampolines? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Reel Power Stunts Posted September 12, 2012 Member Share Posted September 12, 2012 The thing that pissed me off the most, minus the undercranking, was the odd frame rate / slow-mo type thing during fight scenes. I don't know how to describe it but I'm sure you know what I mean. I think there are two things Sammo was using here. One was shooting at normal frame rate but with a slow shutter. The action plays out at real speed, but has a trail/blur to it. Normally films shoot with a 180 degree shutter angle - so if you shoot 24 frames-per -second, you have a 1/48 shutter, 25fps= 1/50. This gives film it's pleasing blur/motion. If you shoot slow motion, say 50fps, you would normally increase the shutter speed (1/100) to have smooth motion. Shooting at less than 180 degrees (or "fast shutter") can make action look choppy and staccato - see "Gladiator" or the "Bourne" films for 90 degree action. The other thing I think I see Sammo using at times is "step printing". This is when you shoot at a slower frame rate than you print. For example, you shoot at 16fps, but print to 24fps. You don't however speed up the action so you get this weird, jumpy effect. The opening credits of "Reservoir Dogs" is a great example of step-printing process. q2Xi3ioasik 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator One Armed Boxer Posted September 12, 2012 Author Moderator Share Posted September 12, 2012 Now I'm going to have watch this again myself. Been a while. Good idea, I'd love to see this get the ShaoOW!linDude mini-review treatment! The thing that pissed me off the most, minus the undercranking, was the odd frame rate / slow-mo type thing during fight scenes. I don't know how to describe it but I'm sure you know what I mean. Understandable, however out of the 2 fight scenes in the movie, it's only used briefly mid-way through the pachinko parlour fight, and that's for the part when the Japanese yakuza guys get involved, before it switches back to normal speed again once Ken Lo & co. jump back in. The pachinko parlour fight scene is full of painful looking falls and hardcore choreography and I didn't mind Sammo's blurry fight cam as much as others do as it wasn't used all that much. Sammo uses the same technique in 'Ashes of Time' as well, but I think it works better in 'Thunderbolt' as it's used very sparingly. Speaking of the pachinko parlour fight, I love the stunt this scene finishes with, that must be a record for the number of pachinko balls on screen at any one time! You know, despite being a huge Jackie fan, I haven't actually seen this film; largely due to negative reviews pretty much everywhere. I was under the impression it was a film with very little action and, overall, pretty yawn worthy. I was under that same impression....until yesterday! I think as long as you go into it knowing, like all of his other movies from that period, that there's no final fight scene, you'll definitely find something to enjoy there. Nice soundtrack as well. Ha ha, I thought I was the only one who noticed this...very catchy theme song! Eh55TmwCn6E Was there a scene in this movie involving trampolines? You're either thinking of 'Rob-B-Hood'....or there's a part in the pachinko parlour fight were they end up jumping over some decorative material hanging from the roof of the parlour, which is done in the same style as a trampoline. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member ShaOW!linDude Posted September 12, 2012 Member Share Posted September 12, 2012 I always liked it too. I never did understand why it didn`t get the same global attention as his other films did at that time. My understanding was that JC didn't want it to be released globally after Rumble In The Bronx and First Strike did so well in US theaters. I think the undercranked car chases came across as more comedic than dramatic. It's a good film but not really up to that caliber and I think he feared it might damage his new opportunity with the US market (but hey, he survived 2 Cannonball Run films, so come on). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Keung Posted September 12, 2012 Member Share Posted September 12, 2012 Thanks for the info, RPS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member massa_yoda Posted September 12, 2012 Member Share Posted September 12, 2012 I am in the 'Love it' category. Two good fight scenes, a huge shoot-out at a police station, and a cool car chase. That's an action trifecta. The car race at the end was dissapointing, but from what I understand they were running out of time to get this film in the can, so they had to (literally) speed things up. It's too bad, if they had the time to do the racing stuff better it would have given this film a real boost. At least there's a cool stunt when the car goes through the tower. I also like how they did the final lap. The only other dissapointing thing was the bad guy. Talk about a guy with no agenda, other than being bad of course. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member rdenn Posted September 12, 2012 Member Share Posted September 12, 2012 decent fight in the arcade pity jackies stuntdouble did most of the action. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member AbeRudder Posted September 12, 2012 Member Share Posted September 12, 2012 Despite the doubling i enjoyed the fights but the lack of an end fight hurt it pretty badly (a problem with jackie's 90s stuff, first strike, rumble, nice guy etc. suffer from this) Jackie's character was pretty annoying too, usually he can carry a sub par story line with his charisma but he was just a grumpy sod in this one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member 66 Mantis Posted September 12, 2012 Member Share Posted September 12, 2012 Loved the Sammo Hung choerographed fight scenes (must have watched that gambling den fight a couple dozen times), but lukewarm toward the rest of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member blue_skies Posted September 12, 2012 Member Share Posted September 12, 2012 ...or there's a part in the pachinko parlour fight were they end up jumping over some decorative material hanging from the roof of the parlour, which is done in the same style as a trampoline. that's probably what I was thinking of:tongue: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Ramji Posted September 12, 2012 Member Share Posted September 12, 2012 Thanks for the technical info Reel Power Stunts, very interesting! Sammo uses the same technique in 'Ashes of Time' as well, but I think it works better in 'Thunderbolt' as it's used very sparingly. Speaking of the pachinko parlour fight, I love the stunt this scene finishes with, that must be a record for the number of pachinko balls on screen at any one time! . I was going mention that too, but I wasn't sure if it was Wong Kar Wai's cinematographer Christopher Doyle who decided to film it like that or Sammo. I guess it makes sense that it was Sammo if the same technique was used later on in Thunderbolt unless he was influenced by Ashes and decided to try it out for himself? Are there any other films of his around the same time with action shot like this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Markgway Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 I didn't hate it... but it's in Jackie's bottom ten. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator One Armed Boxer Posted September 13, 2012 Author Moderator Share Posted September 13, 2012 I was going mention that too, but I wasn't sure if it was Wong Kar Wai's cinematographer Christopher Doyle who decided to film it like that or Sammo. I guess it makes sense that it was Sammo if the same technique was used later on in Thunderbolt unless he was influenced by Ashes and decided to try it out for himself? Are there any other films of his around the same time with action shot like this? It's definitely also used in Wong Kar-Wai's 'Chungking Express' a few times during the chase scenes with Brigitte Lin & Takeshi Kaneshiro, so perhaps it wasn't Sammo's idea? Maybe someone on here could confirm that though. I have a very hazy memory of it being used in 'Kung-fu Cult Master'.... I didn't hate it... but it's in Jackie's bottom ten. Even below all of his post-Rush Hour Hollywood efforts and his Lo Wei era movies!? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Phoenix Posted September 13, 2012 Member Share Posted September 13, 2012 The film has many flaws, including the doubling and the crazy idea to undercrank racing scenes. It was still quite enjoyable the first time I watched it though, and the ladies were quite pretty I guess. I always suspected they were aiming for it to be a big hit in Japan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member blue_skies Posted September 13, 2012 Member Share Posted September 13, 2012 found a cool You Tube channel with lots of Jackie Chan films, amongst other MA movies, including thunderbolt… http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ihlRvgM9ve4&feature=plcp ihlRvgM9ve4&feature=plcp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Markgway Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 Even below all of his post-Rush Hour Hollywood efforts and his Lo Wei era movies!? Hmm...his bottom ten Asian movies then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member AbeRudder Posted September 13, 2012 Member Share Posted September 13, 2012 Even below all of his post-Rush Hour Hollywood efforts and his Lo Wei era movies!? I'd rate the rush hours and shanghai noon/knights ahead of it. Its not as bad as the medallion or the tuxedo though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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