Member GOLDEN DRAGON YIN-YANG Posted July 2, 2012 Member Share Posted July 2, 2012 I am watching The Heroic Ones and I was thinking of The Water Margin. Both movies have the same grandeur and of course both are directed by Chang Cheh. Which one of these two do you like the best and why? I can not decide. GD Y-Y P.S. Sorry for misprint in title of post. Too bad the edit does not allow title corrections. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member David Rees Posted July 2, 2012 Member Share Posted July 2, 2012 I prefer The Heroic Ones as the story flows better and the death of one of the characters is very memorable! Water Margin is ok but a bit slow in my opinion. The sequel All Men Are Brothers is much better and the action is very good if bloody. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Killer Meteor Posted July 2, 2012 Member Share Posted July 2, 2012 Heroic Ones is the better film, but Water Margin has Uriah Heep on the soundtrack! Both films could do with a shorter running time and a better focus on the central characters, but they are very epic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member The Dragon Posted July 4, 2012 Member Share Posted July 4, 2012 I really like THE WATER MARGIN, especially the U.S. version and dubb. However, THE HEROIC ONES just seems to be a better overall film. Even though there are multiple characters in both epics, THO handles them better and you seem to care more about the outcome. I had never seen the uncut version of TWM until Celestial's remastered library came along. It's much longer but misses the grandness given by the soundtrack of the U.S. added music and dubb. In fact, it's probably Shaws' best dubbed film, or contender for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Markgway Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 The Water Margin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member 66 Mantis Posted July 5, 2012 Member Share Posted July 5, 2012 I thought they were both just O.K. Haven't seen Heroic Ones in a long time but from memory, I think I liked it slightly more than Water Margin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member razorclam Posted July 7, 2012 Member Share Posted July 7, 2012 All Men Are Brothers may have some cool action scenes, but it is the worst adaptation I have ever scene. People die in the movie that don't die in the book. People live in the movie that die in the book. The people that die in the movie and the book die in completely different circumstances. If your looking for movies related to the Water Margin look elswhere. James Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Cesare Posted August 15, 2012 Member Share Posted August 15, 2012 Heroic Ones, by five horse lengths. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Run Run Posted August 20, 2012 Member Share Posted August 20, 2012 Heroic Ones, by a water margin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Cloud Hands Posted August 24, 2012 Member Share Posted August 24, 2012 Seems I'm in the minority, but I'd go for the Water Margin as the better film. Although Heroic One's clearly has the best death scene. It's not without it's faults, but I got more of a sense of camaraderie, enjoyed the storyline, choreography is tighter, and the characters it does focus on (not the ones introduced who we don't see till the end) feel better developed. It's also a nice touch seeing some Japanese actors in leading roles. Plus I love Fan Mei Sheng in this, "Black Whirlwind is here"! Wielding two axes.. this blokes about as subtle as hurricane katrina! By contrast, some of the characters in Heroic One's seemed slightly stilted from what I remember.. maybe I need to watch it again as it's been a while. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Cesare Posted August 24, 2012 Member Share Posted August 24, 2012 Well, what I like about Heroic Ones is the pessimistic (even slightly ironic) outlook and the contrast between the heroic facade and all the unheroic, vicious stuff that is going on. I just like films that depress... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Cloud Hands Posted August 24, 2012 Member Share Posted August 24, 2012 True, it is a dark film. What really stood out for me was the whole scene with Ti Lung helping the father to escape. Follow that up with the way David Chiang dies and it's definately an epic film. Haven't watched it for years, I'll think I'll give it another spin soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Secret Executioner Posted August 20, 2014 Member Share Posted August 20, 2014 I haven't seen The Heroic Ones (don't even have this one), but The Water Margin is great. Easily one of my Top 5 Shaw Bros films. Heroic Ones is the better film, but Water Margin has Uriah Heep on the soundtrack! I don't remember that. I remember hearing a cue from Frank Zappa's 200 Motels, but no Uriah Heep. Plus I love Fan Mei Sheng in this, "Black Whirlwind is here"! Wielding two axes.. this blokes about as subtle as hurricane katrina! Yeah, I just loved this guy. I find he provides some lighter, more comedic moments, and he delivers in terms of action - he's also one of the most memorable characters of all this movie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Eastern Evil Posted August 20, 2014 Member Share Posted August 20, 2014 I like the IVL of Heroic Ones because it has a commentary (Thanks kaiai!) There are cool music cues in Water Margin - I've heard Pink Floyd in some Shaws from this time - Echoes & Time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Eastern Evil Posted August 20, 2014 Member Share Posted August 20, 2014 I haven't seen The Heroic Ones (don't even have this one), but The Water Margin is great. Easily one of my Top 5 Shaw Bros films. I don't remember that. I remember hearing a cue from Frank Zappa's 200 Motels, but no Uriah Heep. Yeah, I just loved this guy. I find he provides some lighter, more comedic moments, and he delivers in terms of action - he's also one of the most memorable characters of all this movie. The keyboard licks during the intros & around that part is the Uriah Heep...I think Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Secret Executioner Posted August 20, 2014 Member Share Posted August 20, 2014 The keyboard licks during the intros & around that part is the Uriah Heep...I think Oh yeah. I remember wondering about the opening theme - thought it was some Emerson, Lake & Palmer tune. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member ShawAngela Posted August 20, 2014 Member Share Posted August 20, 2014 I like both of them, but with a slight preference for Heroic ones... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Morgoth Bauglir Posted August 21, 2014 Member Share Posted August 21, 2014 GH Worshipper have you seen the sequel All Men Are Brothers? Fan Mei Sheng as the Black Whirlwind is one of the greatest movie characters ever! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member paimeifist Posted August 21, 2014 Member Share Posted August 21, 2014 I love Tiger Killer and Delightful Forest (probably my favorite Ti kung performance), recently got the Water Margin but haven't watched it yet. Il get AMAB after I watch that. Anyone know if its worth having on Blu Ray? I just recently watched Heroic One sometime in the last month, I thought it was a decent movie, nothing great. The scope during some of the scenes was impressive though. The dark ending was a nice twist to the regular formula. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Secret Executioner Posted February 14, 2015 Member Share Posted February 14, 2015 Having now seen The Heroic Ones, I'd say it's a tough call. The Heroic Ones has a better performance by David Chiang and a great performance by Ku Feng and great battle scenes, but it's a bit hard to follow at points and it has parts where it drags. The Water Margin has the better story, some memorable characters (Black Whirlwind notably) and has a quiter but more elaborate story that's told better though. In both cases, the soundtrack is enjoyable (I like The Water Margin's a bit more though), some sets are great (The Water Margin has a really impressive fort at the beginning, but The Heroic Ones has overall nicer sets) and we're dealing with rather long movies (SB are usually around 100 minutes, while these two are 120 minutes) that have a lot of story to tell (The Water Margin tells its story better IMO). Hard to pick which one I prefer between the two, but ultimately, I'll go with The Water Margin (though by a very small margin). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member paimeifist Posted February 15, 2015 Member Share Posted February 15, 2015 I would say I easily like the Water Margin more. Heroic Ones has some great moments, and it's very best moments are probably better than the best moments of Water Margin.. With that said, I felt the pacing was poor in Heroic Ones and felt bored or disinterested at points during the movie. I was never bored during The Water Margin, and enjoyed it all the way through. GHW, if you want to see a fantastic David Chiang performance, go watch Blood Brothers man! You said you've seen Shaolin Mantis right? That is easily my favorite fighting performance of his. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Secret Executioner Posted February 15, 2015 Member Share Posted February 15, 2015 I would say I easily like the Water Margin more. Heroic Ones has some great moments, and it's very best moments are probably better than the best moments of Water Margin.. With that said, I felt the pacing was poor in Heroic Ones and felt bored or disinterested at points during the movie. I was never bored during The Water Margin, and enjoyed it all the way through. Looks like we agree on these two as well. GHW, if you want to see a fantastic David Chiang performance, go watch Blood Brothers man! Stop bringing up movies I have in my "waiting to be watched" stacks, dammit (you talked about Shaolin Wooden Men in another thread, and that too I have to watch) !! It makes it even harder to pick what to watch. You said you've seen Shaolin Mantis right? That is easily my favorite fighting performance of his. Nope, I don't even have it so far. But I read high praise on this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member paimeifist Posted February 15, 2015 Member Share Posted February 15, 2015 I remember you saying you had Blood Brothers, that's why I'm saying to watch it! Haha! As for Shaolin Wooden Men, it's a mediocre affair, save that one for one for a time killer. Ah, my bad. Shaolin Mantis is great all around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Secret Executioner Posted February 15, 2015 Member Share Posted February 15, 2015 I remember you saying you had Blood Brothers, that's why I'm saying to watch it! Haha! As for Shaolin Wooden Men, it's a mediocre affair, save that one for one for a time killer. Ah, my bad. Shaolin Mantis is great all around. Was just fooling around cause it was the second post of yours I read that mentionned a movie I have sitting there waiting to be popped up and watched. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Secret Executioner Posted June 8, 2015 Member Share Posted June 8, 2015 Mentionned this in the June review thread, as someone asked me about the Water Margin vs Heroic Ones choice. Sorta giving you my $0.02 after revisiting The Heroic Ones for this review. Picking a favorite is pretty hard. I must say I wasn't sold on David Chiang when seeing The Water Margin (the first movie I saw with him). The Heroic Ones meanwhile could be my favorite performance of his - either this one or New One-armed Swordsman. Ti Lung is used more and better in The Heroic Ones, but Fan Mei Sheng in The Water Margin is clearly the most memorable character of either film. While I praised the great looks of The Heroic Ones, it really bugs me that all the forts are obviously the same set piece (it's still a very impressive piece). The Water Margin has better and bigger set pieces (the fortress at the beginning is incredible), though it's essentially set in a village and in the wild somewhere between the fortress and the village. The Heroic Ones has a really cool opening with that Chinese-typed tune turning into some kind of Spaghetti Western theme - and this playing while the thirteen brothers are seen riding horses in the wild as the credits roll, well it just turns out really epic and it's a very well constructed opening credit sequence. But I'd give an edge to The Water Margin for using a Uriah Heep song as its opening theme, boats sailing to a gigantic fortress and the camera following the people from the boats into the fort, until reaching the central building where each character and actor are introduced as the 108 bandits are having a party. Basically it's "simple and epic" versus "gigantic and wow-inducing", both having a great theme song playing. For the opening sequence (which stunned me), the most memorable character (who is a secondary character but makes each of his appearances a great moment) and the better sets, I guess I'll go with The Water Margin. But as far as story and main characters go, I'd rather go with The Heroic Ones - the story is less convoluted, the characters are more interesting (I like the smart older guy - I think he's one of the leaders of the bandits - who goes with Fan Mei Sheng before they are captured, but the rest of the characters in The Water Margin aren't very solid) and David Chiang is a billion times more interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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