The only hope for classic martial arts films going forward?

[waywardsage]

Since kung fu fandom is going back into the deep freeze for the foreseeable future, I'm curious if the upcoming batch of future films might revive things? Films like Reeve's 47 Ronin and Man of Tai Chi might be successful. If so, this might influence distributors to lossen their purse stings and release more classic Shaw's, Fortune Stars and Samurai films.

If Crouching Tiger and the Matrix's box office success blew the doors open to releases in the early 2000's, is it possible for this to happen again? Is this our only hope to get new DVD/Blu's of classic martial arts films?

What are peoples thoughts?

[So High]

I don't think another box office success is our only hope. Not saying it doesn't help though. It would be cool if it did though. I would like to see a gang of ole schools get the blu ray treatment they deserve. I mean I watch something like Five Venoms on Blu n all I get to thinkin is man if Dance Of the Drunk Mantis could look this good. (use that cause its one of my favs.) There are so many others too though not just Shaw Bros that I would like to see on Blu.

[waywardsage]

I'm just surprised that a boutique label doesn't get a hold of some rights to like 4 films, release a nice boxed set in HD with some nice cover art and some modest features. Other genres' have this. I guess kung fu as a genre is plagued by boot legs so badly that it just wont sell like other genres like torture porn, horror, pink films, etc.

[DarthKato]

I believe that what we need is the next wave of great MA stars. For example, bruce Lee showed up in the 70's, causing the populartiy of the MA genre to increase substantially. The other great actors that Martial Arts films have are starting to show their age , like Jackie Chan and to a lesser degree, Jet Li and Donnie yen, along with many others. what we need is for there to be a new, fresh wave of talented actors/actress to take up the mantle and keep these films alive. Also, it would not hurt for them to make classics MA films more readly available to the everyday consumer. Not everyone is able or willing to buy films from online sources, so getting these films into stores would go along way in increasing intrest in MA.

[The Dragon]

They need to get back to genuine Martial Artists and choreographers behind and in front of the cameras. Forget those pop stars and pretty boys.

Get away from the wire-fu for a while also. Tell more heroic period stories with better production values.

It can be done..

Utilize the connections to the past with veterans still around and very capable; Sammo, Chen Kuai Tai, Chi Kwan Chun, Yuen Biao, etc..

When I saw the presence Jimmy Wang Yu brought to Wu Xia, I was like, that's what I'm talkin' bout!!!

[Drunken Monk]

We face a huge problem in that film makers do not grasp or consider what true kung fu fans want. Even Rza, an alleged fan-boy himself, has seemingly made a film that caters more to the wire-filled messes Hong Kong releases these days, rather than a nostalgic kick back to the days of yore.

What happens when fan-boys are catered to? Well received films like "The Raid" and even "Ong Bak." Well choreographed, superbly edited, intricate action set pieces. And I challenge you to find a non-kung fu fan who doesn't enjoy the arse kicking in either of those films.

The sad reality is that we, as fans, are RIGHT. Will we make studios millions of dollars? Certainly not. But will our preferences set studios on the right path to making millions of dollars? I think so, yes.

Give Eric Jacobus time and money to make a full on shapes film, blended with the falls, tumbles and brutal hits he's know for and who the hell wouldn't like it? My girlfriend, who has no interest in martial arts cinema other than Jet Li, still loves intricately choreographed fight scenes.

Who doesn't want to leave a cinema trying to do some style they saw on a film they were watching? Ok, so that might not ever happen, but it's that energy we need again.

Directors and choreographers need to take note of the fact that 1970's and 1980's kung fu wasn't broken. It was fucking awesome. We want that again but with a modern twist. We don't want people doing eighty six somersaults and landing a kick while some dude waits to take it on the chin and we don't need high flying, slow motion, CGI and 3D filled, wire assisted wuxia that looks like it was made for six dollars.

Keep it simple in concept but intricate in execution.

[DarthKato]

Althought I love the film, I believe :The Matrix" is the cause of most of the problems that this genre has. That film was pretty much the start of the CGI fulled, slow-mo, and over use of wire craze that we are now facing. Other producers looked at the success it enjoyed and then tried to cash in on it.

Anyone else agree with me on this?

[So High]

I totally agree with ya Kato. Although most try to argue that Rush Hour started the MA craze. Granted it did come out first, but I dont think it had as much of an impact on the movie industry as The Matrix did. It put hong kong choreography out there on a much broader scale than had ever been done before. Cause with Rush Hour you had hong kong style fights, but with The Matrix we all remember "Morpheus is fighting Neo". Awesome fight with Keanu and Lawerence. And Keanu had an injured neck at the time. With Rush Hour most people remember "which one of yall kick me" and Jackie Chan doing his own stunts. Your right too the wires special effects it set the standard for movies after it came out.

[ShaOW!linDude]

Althought I love the film, I believe :The Matrix" is the cause of most of the problems that this genre has. That film was pretty much the start of the CGI fulled, slow-mo, and over use of wire craze that we are now facing. Other producers looked at the success it enjoyed and then tried to cash in on it.

Anyone else agree with me on this?

Um...I kinda see where you're coming from, but I wouldn't lay all the blame at the feet of The Matrix. I think the emphasis on wire-fu is due mostly to Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon and yet that's not wholly to blame either.

When Jet Li broke out big in the US, many of his films had some stupid wire-fu in them with the exceptions being Kiss Of The Dragon and The One (which was kinda Matrix-y but way cool to me). Not only that but the box office smashes of superhero film heightened all that even more. Wuxia films are like super-folk hero movies and I've never cared for them. I've always preferred more realistic (and I use that word subjectively) choreography.

The stuff we fans get today is like 1 of 2 aspects: 1) an amalgamation of these types of choreography in action films or 2) an attempt to strip that action/choreography to its barest essentials that directors/producers think fans love; and it's all based on previous trends.

Films that are most likely viewed as throwback type stuff is not properly hyped or marketed by the studios because it resides to firmly in the MA genre. They prefer a film that might span genres and thereby gain a greater viewing audience who will dare to shuck out their bucks at the theater.

Drunken Monk stated it best:

Directors and choreographers need to take note of the fact that 1970's and 1980's kung fu wasn't broken.

And so did The Dragon:

They need to get back to genuine Martial Artists and choreographers behind and in front of the cameras.

The first quote is the attitude and the 2nd is the action that studios need to take. Then they need to take the risk of leaving it in the theaters long enough for people to actually see it for themselves.

[TibetanWhiteCrane]

I think one of the main problems is that Hong Kong is one of the least nostalgic places on earth. Everything that is over two days old, is litterally yesterdays trash! It doesn't seem to be a lack of respect for what came before, as much as always chasing the new, often at the expense of the old. I know Bey Logan had talked about this alot. It is extremely difficult to drum up any interest for anything "classic" and people in the biz would often roll their eyes when he referenced something from the old films. that kinda tells you the general mindset of the bussines today.

[DarthKato]

Um...I kinda see where you're coming from, but I wouldn't lay all the blame at the feet of The Matrix. I think the emphasis on wire-fu is due mostly to Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon and yet that's not wholly to blame either.

When Jet Li broke out big in the US, many of his films had some stupid wire-fu in them with the exceptions being Kiss Of The Dragon and The One (which was kinda Matrix-y but way cool to me). Not only that but the box office smashes of superhero film heightened all that even more. Wuxia films are like super-folk hero movies and I've never cared for them. I've always preferred more realistic (and I use that word subjectively) choreography.

The stuff we fans get today is like 1 of 2 aspects: 1) an amalgamation of these types of choreography in action films or 2) an attempt to strip that action/choreography to its barest essentials that directors/producers think fans love; and it's all based on previous trends.

Films that are most likely viewed as throwback type stuff is not properly hyped or marketed by the studios because it resides to firmly in the MA genre. They prefer a film that might span genres and thereby gain a greater viewing audience who will dare to shuck out their bucks at the theater.

Drunken Monk stated it best:

And so did The Dragon:

The first quote is the attitude and the 2nd is the action that studios need to take. Then they need to take the risk of leaving it in the theaters long enough for people to actually see it for themselves.

I was not really trying to lay all the blame on The Matrix.I was just saying that it was the starting point for our troubles now days. If anything, I would put all the blame on these unoriginal Producers/directors that are unwilling to take a risk and make a pure MA film.Like you and others have said, the key is to find new people willing to take a risk and trust that their audiance will support their film.

In the slightly altered words of "Field of Dreams" "Make it and we will come":tongue:

PS "The One" is awesome!

[The Dragon]

I think one of the main problems is that Hong Kong is one of the least nostalgic places on earth. Everything that is over two days old, is litterally yesterdays trash! It doesn't seem to be a lack of respect for what came before, as much as always chasing the new, often at the expense of the old. I know Bey Logan had talked about this alot. It is extremely difficult to drum up any interest for anything "classic" and people in the biz would often roll their eyes when he referenced something from the old films. that kinda tells you the general mindset of the bussines today.

And they seem to overflood the market once something proves successful;

CROUCHING TIGER

FEARLESS

HERO

These films were all very popular, albeit for different reasons, but they all shared one essential element; great Kung Fu set pieces.

Even Donnie Yen's Ip Man, which is seeing it's what? 3rd sequel?

James Brown had a track called Doin' It To Death. That about sums up the industry.

[Killer Meteor]

I think they need to make more emotionally inspiring action fests. Where you really want to see the hero deck everyone!

[peringaten]

Classic kung needs telly exposure for more popularity. Airwaves are too dry nowadays. Look how many fans in states came from BBtheatre & ilk. There's a goldmine for schedulers in classic kung & they ignore it.

[Killer Meteor]

I became a kung fu fan in 2001, which was excellent timing as the Hong Kong Legends releases were in shops and also on television.

I know I criticise HKL a lot for poor quality control, but they were a superb induction nevertheless

[ShaOW!linDude]

SPIKE, TNT, USA, and a couple of other channels used to be good about showing some MA films every so often, though it wasn't really old school stuff like that put out by Golden Harvest and Shaw Bros. Earlier this year FUEL was doing a Saturday night kung fu flick but then they stopped. Got to catch about 2 or 3 I'd never seen before and decide whether or not I ever wanted to hunt down their dvds.

I reckon most networks figure that if a film doesn't have explosions, car chases, and gunfights with only a smattering of MA in it, then the viewing audience isn't interested. But they'll dedicate a reality show or infomercial or home-shopping program to anything.

Oh, oh, oh!!!! How about a reality show about a fu fan and his weekly search for MA flicks? Or a home-shopping program/infomercial that specializes in re-issues of old MA films?

[So High]

I hope the kung fu films of this year spark intrest in kung fu classics. Ya know someone see the Raid and the get bit by the kung fu bug and start looking into classics. I do what I can anyone I meet I also seem to through kung fu flicks into a conversation, Its gonna be cool once another company comes along like Dragon Dynasty. I remember when they first showed up with SPL and I was like "AHHH" ya know the heavens AHHH angel singin not AHH! as in that hurt. U get what I'm typin.

[DarthKato]

SPIKE, TNT, USA, and a couple of other channels used to be good about showing some MA films every so often, though it wasn't really old school stuff like that put out by Golden Harvest and Shaw Bros. Earlier this year FUEL was doing a Saturday night kung fu flick but then they stopped. Got to catch about 2 or 3 I'd never seen before and decide whether or not I ever wanted to hunt down their dvds.

I reckon most networks figure that if a film doesn't have explosions, car chases, and gunfights with only a smattering of MA in it, then the viewing audience isn't interested. But they'll dedicate a reality show or infomercial or home-shopping program to anything.

Oh, oh, oh!!!! How about a reality show about a fu fan and his weekly search for MA flicks? Or a home-shopping program/infomercial that specializes in re-issues of old MA films?

I would watch it:nerd:

[oneskyforall]

G4 actually shows Bruce Lee films pretty often. I've seen Big Boss, Enter the Dragon and Fists of Fury on there a few times.

I'm pretty sure one station is doing a Bruce Lee marathon either one day soon or it already happened. Can't remember if it was g4 or Spike.

But I agree there should be more martial arts flicks shown on TV to expose the new generation.

[NoForAnAnswer]

I try to expose my friends and other people to watch classic kung fu flicks and mostly the response has been good. Have any of these people bought any dvds? Not that I know of. I'm convinced that most people either don't care about the genre or are only interested in whats the newest thing to come out. Almost everyone I know only watches new mainstream releases anyway. Trying to get people to watch old kung fu flicks aint easy in my experience let alone take them seriously.

[So High]

I know thats right. In my experience I have found introducing people to the genre Drunken Master works best. Its got a star that they know. The fight scenes are still decent to this day. And theres drinking involved.

[NoForAnAnswer]

The one just about everyone ive loaned it to and loved was five element ninjas. A true classic. Even my non kung fu fan friends enjoyed that one.