The state of classic martial arts film distributors?

[paimeifist]

How is funimation doing? I bought the 3 pack that has Invincible Shaolin, Shaolin Prince(awesome movie), and Life Gamble, and they were all of good quality.. But that was probably a year ago, at the time I thought it was a new thing for funimation to release Shaws. Have they had any new(er) releases?

Anyway, more on topic, I think a lot of you all are getting too in depth.. the reason is simple, and has been stated many times here - not enough interest, and bootlegs where there is interest. With that said, I do not think that it has ever had much interest, at least in the age of DVDs, so I think we will always see some decent releases.. At what rate, I am not so sure about that, haha.

[Killer Meteor]

Funimation just got what BCI had licensed.

[daisho2004]

Listen I was pissed that Celestial put out the chopped version of Avenging Eagles! One of my Favorite SB movies! I think classic SB Kung Fu movies are like a lot of us a dying breed, everyone wants new movies like The Raid and Ong Bak & movies with Wire Fu, now don't get me wrong I loved The Raid & Ong Bak but nothing beats the classics SB movies we all grew up on watching on the Saturday Drive In Movie on channel 5 back in the day!

[The Silver Fox]

Another thing is that the supply of really good old school kung fu movies isn't endless. Sure,a little known jem will get unearthed here and there but honestly,when you see fave kung fu movie lists etc. it's usually the same 20-30 titles that get mentioned. Most of the good stuff has been released already-is there really anything exceptional that is yet to be released?

I am of the opinion that there are actually very few seriously great kung fu movies,alot of good/fair ones,tons and tons of average to bad ones. In this genre you have to wade through alot of garbage to find the really excellent,worthy of repeat viewings type films.

This must be the only genre where a a few minutes of inspired fighting from say,Philip or Hwang can make a terrible movie worth sitting thorough. I've said it before, but take a film that is almost always held up as a favourite,Knockabout. For kung fu fans it is totally amazing but the average movie fan or even a person who likes genre films will likely get impatient after the first 40 minutes.

[karatemoviecom]

@ The Silver Fox, you hit the nail on the head. The problem with the Kung Fu genre, is that for every 1 GREAT film, there are 10 average films released. It's a numbers game, and distributors/rights holders have to maximize their investment any way they can.

[Killer Meteor]

I think there's actually a decent quantity out there of great to good martial arts films on dvd. Again, though, the transfers are no good.

I'm flogging the dead horse, but try and stop me!

[karatemoviecom]

@ killer meteor

read my post # 2

2. The older film negatives & positives were never kept in vaulted storage, and thus are in a TERRIBLE shape of preservation (recently I contacted Tai Seng about putting some of the old Rainbow/Pan-Asia titles onto DVD, and was told even the video tape masters are no longer available).

[ukrevrend]

I believe that if you're going to a job, you might as well do it properly. Or you don't get my money.

Often it's a case of a dvd being messed up by unnesscary tampering, especially with the Fortune Star titles.

Now this doesn't apply to movies that only remain as cropped 4:3 tape masters, I was always happy to pick up an old school rare from Vengeance or Tai Seng.

But it does seem to me that HK movies often get short shrift on dvd from distributors who keep tampering with the films. And I have other genres to spend my money on that don't get this stupid tampering.

However, this doesn't apply to Media Blasters's Shaw line which, with the exception of The Master, were all good anamorphic discs with proper NTSC picture, orginal audio, good subs....so it seems even if you do the right thing, it doesn't help!

The point I was trying to make is, for years we have waited for quality releases of our genre, back in the old days of VHS & Betamax, I have ( and many others on this board) paid probably hundreds of pounds / dollars for 'quality' only to find out maybe a year or even weeks later better 'quality' is out there......chasing a dream!

I remember when the first set of officially released kung fu DVD hit the UK / USA, there I went down to Ritcher Sounds (HiFi, TV store), paid £400.00 for a multi region DVD, off I went to China Town, then paid £25.00 each for imported Ground Zero Shaw Brothers releases: Kid WIth The Golden Arm, Ten Tigers From Kwantung, The New One Armed Swordsman & Avenging Eagle, only to find out my TV was Pal only, so I had to purchase a converter to send a Pal 60 picture to my TV, that cost £125.00:cry: I personally own 6 different releases / bootlegs of Warriors Two, (trying to find the 'perfect one'). Why? you may be asking yourself (hopefully my Mrs is reading this, as she never understood it) I love this genre, nothing else comes close!

I have read through this thread and I agree with a lot of what has been written, torrents, prices, to much crap as oppose to good or great movie releases. As I said in my previous post I am just happy I paid CDWow £5.00 - £6.00 each for my Shaw Bro's collection...hey they are not perfect, but I am content!

p.s. Don't get me started on Blue Ray.........

Bless

[Killer Meteor]

@ killer meteor

read my post # 2

2. The older film negatives & positives were never kept in vaulted storage, and thus are in a TERRIBLE shape of preservation (recently I contacted Tai Seng about putting some of the old Rainbow/Pan-Asia titles onto DVD, and was told even the video tape masters are no longer available).

I'm talking about existing video masters that are used and then spoilt by bad conversion or remixing. I'm entirely sympathetic to the survival rate of the negatives etc but a lot of what I criticise about kung fu releases is meddling that occurs at the dvd producer's end.

[karatemoviecom]

Right, and that is something that should be addressed to the distributor, not the dealer.

[Jesse Smooth]

@ The Silver Fox, you hit the nail on the head. The problem with the Kung Fu genre, is that for every 1 GREAT film, there are 10 average films released. It's a numbers game, and distributors/rights holders have to maximize their investment any way they can.

Lets not forget that kung fu movies are not broadcast on TV on a regular basis as they were 25 years ago. Westerns have a bigger fanbase and at least there is a Western channel. I think one of the reasons the Kung Fu channel flopped was maybe because of the selections.

[karatemoviecom]

That, and the cost of dubbing/transferring to videotape ain't cheap!

[dionbrother]

Archive releases of EVERYTHING are doing poorly on dvd. Sony just laid off most of their home video staff, and are now licensing the Columbia catalog to Mill Creek. There is hope that companies like Funimation, Mill Creek, etc. know what they are doing, because they are practically the last line of defense in getting decent releases of anything on Stateside home video.

[karatemoviecom]

Shout! Factory does a great job of Archival home video releases in the US. They are not cheap, but you get what you pay for. Network DVD in the UK is also a good company

[Killer Meteor]

Shout! Factory does a great job of Archival home video releases in the US. They are not cheap, but you get what you pay for. Network DVD in the UK is also a good company

I think Shout is great. It's a case where I wish there was an equivilant company in HK.

[Guest Markgway]

Hong Kong distributors put out shit product even when the market was at its peak.

[Killer Meteor]

Hong Kong distributors put out shit product even when the market was at its peak.

HKL did so too. Far too many of their discs are not the ideal way to view the films (though sadly they may be the best), with their remixes, cropping and stretching. Ironically, simple transfers would often had been better.

In 2001/2002, the market was very productive in the UK for kung fu movies. HKL mostly stuck to 80s/90s hits, whilst Eastern Heroes and MIA churned out garbage dvds of interesting films.

Now, very little beyond Cine Asia.

[karatemoviecom]

Often times the DVD/VHS company has no control over what print they get. Usually, they get a print from the production company/distributor, and thats all they have.

[blue_skies]

Shout! Factory does a great job of Archival home video releases in the US. They are not cheap, but you get what you pay for. Network DVD in the UK is also a good company

what exactly do they do?

[karatemoviecom]

Shout Factory does Classic American TV series, Network DVD does rare ITV Television series!

[waywardsage]

I left a post on Media Blasters facebook page. A bunch of people responded in support! Even MB responded. But they seemed kinda muted. It seems that they think there aren't any more good movies to release?! Go on there and tell them they're wrong if you can!

[Sheng]

Originally Posted by Markgway

Hong Kong distributors put out shit product even when the market was at its peak.

Yes, some of them did, but let us make one thing clear: putting out „shit product“ at market peak-times (I assume you’re talking about DVD quality here) had absolutely NOTHING to do with the commercial decline of HK cinema and the gradual wane of interest in some of its main export markets, notably the UK, the US and Europe.

Originally Poster by Killer Meteor

HKL did so too. Far too many of their discs are not the ideal way to view the films (though sadly they may be the best), with their remixes, cropping and stretching. Ironically, simple transfers would often had been better.

Yes, some releases were botched, true dat. But, er… “far too many”? Let’s not get carried away here, please. Else it comes across like the rants on certain of these “Asian expert” forums (still existing and already closed ones…) where incessant bitching about HKL’s shortcomings never went out of favour (“pinkified picture”, etc…) But whatever, shitstorms outta these corners hopefully never distracted anyone from the fact that a good 80 percent of HKL releases set professional standards that no other distributor of Asian films met at the time. And a surprisingly high percentage of their product could still be considered reference material, ten years or so later. The latter point is a rather sad one and speaks volumes about the state the market is in.

Originally Posted by Killer Meteor

Now, very little beyond Cine Asia.

Yeah, and they seem to focus on Korean films more & more. Currently the HK stuff they churn out consists either of old HKL titles or B-grade modern fare like LEGENDARY AMAZONS and 1911 Checked their site yesterday and there’s nothing announced to get excited about, really.

[blue_skies]

Originally Posted by Markgway

Yes, some of them did, but let us make one thing clear: putting out „shit product“ at market peak-times (I assume you’re talking about DVD quality here) had absolutely NOTHING to do with the commercial decline of HK cinema and the gradual wane of interest in some of its main export markets, notably the UK, the US and Europe.

Originally Poster by Killer Meteor

Yes, some releases were botched, true dat. But, er… “far too many”? Let’s not get carried away here, please. Else it comes across like the rants on certain of these “Asian expert” forums (still existing and already closed ones…) where incessant bitching about HKL’s shortcomings never went out of favour (“pinkified picture”, etc…) But whatever, shitstorms outta these corners hopefully never distracted anyone from the fact that a good 80 percent of HKL releases set professional standards that no other distributor of Asian films met at the time. And a surprisingly high percentage of their product could still be considered reference material, ten years or so later. The latter point is a rather sad one and speaks volumes about the state the market is in.

Originally Posted by Killer Meteor

Yeah, and they seem to focus on Korean films more & more. Currently the HK stuff they churn out consists either of old HKL titles or B-grade modern fare like LEGENDARY AMAZONS and 1911 Checked their site yesterday and there’s nothing announced to get excited about, really.

I agree, who doesn't want the perfect release but far too many quality complaints were relatively petty about Hong Kong Legends titles as on the whole they were fantastic releases, with few better English subtitled versions released elsewhere. I wish more late 70s and early to mid 80s titles had been released by Hong Kong Legends, more's the pity they didn't get their hands on Shaw Bros movies for the UK

[andy338]

I agree, who doesn't want the perfect release but far too many quality complaints were relatively petty about Hong Kong Legends titles as on the whole they were fantastic releases, with few better English subtitled versions released elsewhere. I wish more late 70s and early to mid 80s titles had been released by Hong Kong Legends, more's the pity they didn't get their hands on Shaw Bros movies for the UK

Totally agree, after reading reviews by fans of some of the hkl discs you'd think they were not worth bothering with when in fact most were very good. I remember the criticism that the Cineasia Fist of Legend blu ray got on when it first came out but I have to say it's the best version I've seen.

[Guest Markgway]

Yes, some of them did, but let us make one thing clear: putting out „shit product“ at market peak-times (I assume you’re talking about DVD quality here) had absolutely NOTHING to do with the commercial decline of HK cinema and the gradual wane of interest in some of its main export markets, notably the UK, the US and Europe.

I know. On the whole western distributors did/do a better job than HK distributors. Any decline in interest is a seperate issue.

where incessant bitching about HKL’s shortcomings never went out of favour (“pinkified picture”, etc…)

I invented that term.

But whatever, shitstorms outta these corners hopefully never distracted anyone from the fact that a good 80 percent of HKL releases set professional standards that no other distributor of Asian films met at the time.

Were HKL discs better than anything coming out in Hong Kong? Of course. But they were often flawed. The truly great discs (Duel to the Death, Dragons Forever, etc) were sadly in a minority.We had 5.1 remixes (Warriors Two, etc), dubtitles (Heart of Dragon), cropping (Legend of a Fighter, Police Story 2, etc), pinkification (Fist of Fury, etc), incorrect language (The Big Boss, etc). Are we to ignore these flaws lest it upset label supporters? I say 'no'. I tell the truth and if it bothers anyone then don't buy. The choice is down to the individual. I won't pretend something is better than it is.

Yeah, and they seem to focus on Korean films more & more. Currently the HK stuff they churn out consists either of old HKL titles or B-grade modern fare like LEGENDARY AMAZONS and 1911 Checked their site yesterday and there’s nothing announced to get excited about, really.

Surprised to see Cine Asia choose Legendary Amazons and 1911 given that they were critical and commercial flops.