The state of classic martial arts film distributors?

[waywardsage]

I've noticed a lot of companies going under or dark lately: BCI, Dragon Dynasty, Media Blasters, Animegio?

Lets all have a frank discussion about why these companies are going under. Why? Do not enough people are about martial arts films anymore? Has the genre gone dormant again? Is piracy killing them off?

I find it harder and harder to find good R1 releases of classic kung fu, samrurai, asian martial arts films. It's virtually impossible outside of the internet to find them anymore. And there are so many amazing ones that have never been released in R1!

When I look at companies like Well Go USA, I'm shocked at how quickly a laugingstock distributor can turn things around and get with the times. They secured some major new martial arts films. But they seem to have been neglecting the classics wholesale. But they seem to get that social media, youtube, digital distribution options, fan feedback are ESSENTIAL to the survival of their companies.

Why haven't companies that are hanging by a thread such as Animeigo and Media Blasters getting this? Will they ever?

[nectarsis]

Piracy plays into it, serious lack of promotion to the general public, the economic climate I'm sure all factor in. Sadly I see MANY people that go for the cheaper boots (look I got 10 movies for what you paid for 1-2).

I pray that at least a couple companies hold on, and continue with QUALITY releases (shudders at the condition of many releases in the early/mid 90's in the US).

[Killer Meteor]

In general, dvd sales are down. The global recession can't have helped either.

I do feel that not enough was done in the early days to get out good dvds of kung fu films (and by good, I mean 16:9 enhanced, OAR, original audio etc), though I understand the boots kept thwarting that. The Shaws stuff came out in the US in 2007 which I think was too late. Surprisingly, no-one really seemed that interested in the Golden Harvest films.

[masterofoneinchpunch]

RE: BCI:

BCI was actually turning around its reputation before it went under and since they were releasing many other films besides martial arts, I'm not sure MA was the reason they went away. I'm going to go with economy, pirating, and bad business decisions (paying too much for some rights to films that did not make a profit).

For goodness sake it even put out a Akira Kurosawa film (and Quiet Duel was a good release). I have all the Rarescope titles and many other releases from that label.

Mill Creek re-released some of the BCI releases like Ultraman.

From Video Business Online: (the link does not appear to work anymore)

Navarre shuts down BCI Elipse

Corporation looks to reduce costs due to recession

By Susanne Ault -- Video Business, 12/17/2008

DEC. 17 | Navarre Corp. is shutting down the primary licensing operations of its in-house label BCI Eclipse in order to reduce costs in the current recession.

As part of this decision, Navarre will be reducing its workforce and writing down assets. Going forward, BCI’s exclusively distributed disc business will be folded into the corporation’s distribution unit. Its BCI brand is not expected to be stamped on future releases. Among former BCI-managed titles now distributed by Navarre Distribution Services is the ongoing Ultimate Fighter mixed martial arts releases.

Retro TV titles, featuring the licensed He-Man and She-Ra series, have been among the label’s more popular titles.

Current BCI president Bob Freese will be in charge of the company restructuring. Its expected that about 10 employees will be losing their jobs with the label's closure. Navarre did not specify layoffs and did not further comment about executive departures.

Navarre CEO Cary Deacon said that BCI needed adjusting because it has been an unprofitable business for the last two years.

The company did not quantify the number of BCI-related layoffs. But Navarre expects that its fiscal 2009 third-quarter results for the period ending Dec. 31 will include a significant charge due in part to severance costs.

Navarre hopes to complete the restructuring, which is part of the company’s general strategy to lower costs, by the end of January 2009.

“To deal with the effect of the recession, we are moving quickly to decrease expenses in all areas of our business,” said Deacon. “Rapidly changing conditions in the licensing and budget DVD markets during this holiday sales season have prompted us to make more fundamental changes. We continue to be very excited about the DVD content that will now be exclusively sold and marketed through Navarre Distribution Services. These changes will allow us to focus our efforts on growing the sales of the DVD content that is most appealing to our retail customers and consumers.”

[Killer Meteor]

I think the HK companies attitude didn't help either. In 2003, Celestial wanted a buyer for ALL the Shaw films and held out for such.

And then there's the US majors buying up titles and sitting on them.

That said, samurai films seem to keep being released. I suspect this is down to a lot of them being released by Criterion and Home Vision - fairly secure company. Animego seems to carry on fine. Is it just bad luck that kung fus ended up with ill fated companies. Image is still around and released a load of Shaws, but screwed up the discs royally - another big complaint of mine is the shear number of flawed dvds that should have been fine. Far too many kung fu releases, in the US, UK and Hong Kong are spoilt by cropping, remixing, bad authoring, standards conversions problems, bad subs...by comparison, the samurai picks are in mostly capable hands.

[The Silver Fox]

DVD's of classic Martial Arts films cater to a very small, niche market and most of the top tier titles have been available in an at least acceptable dvd format for years. What could possibly motivate a company,in these tough economic times, to invest all kinds of money in a project that probably won't even break even? It's over. All you can do is is get what's already out there before everything goes OOP.

[waywardsage]

So our conclusion is that we're headed toward a OOP nightmare where we won't be able to get decent Shaw's for under $100?

[ukrevrend]

In general, dvd sales are down. The global recession can't have helped either.

I do feel that not enough was done in the early days to get out good dvds of kung fu films (and by good, I mean 16:9 enhanced, OAR, original audio etc), though I understand the boots kept thwarting that. The Shaws stuff came out in the US in 2007 which I think was too late. Surprisingly, no-one really seemed that interested in the Golden Harvest films.

I think that with our genre, we have too many 'wants' "16:9 enhanced, OAR, original audio" Companies cannot satisfy our obsession with 'perfection!' Celestial exposed us to the Shaw library, gems I personally thought I would never see, properly! But it seems that wasn't enough for the purist, Pal to NTSC transfers, Mandarin or Cantonese, Cut or Uncut, remixed audio or 5.1. the complaints just go on & on! I'm just glad I own (can watch it as many times as I like) a good / mint copy of Kid from Kwangtung, my previous 2 versions were a semi b/w version and the other a F/S 5th 0r 6 generation, washed out print.

From the days of video tapes, our genre hasn't been taken seriously by media companies, so why should we expect anything different now!

Bless

[sifu iron perm]

So our conclusion is that we're headed toward a OOP nightmare where we won't be able to get decent Shaw's for under $100?

where is your signature clip taken from?

[Killer Meteor]

I think that with our genre, we have too many 'wants' "16:9 enhanced, OAR, original audio" Companies cannot satisfy our obsession with 'perfection!' Celestial exposed us to the Shaw library, gems I personally thought I would never see, properly! But it seems that wasn't enough for the purist, Pal to NTSC transfers, Mandarin or Cantonese, Cut or Uncut, remixed audio or 5.1. the complaints just go on & on! I'm just glad I own (can watch it as many times as I like) a good / mint copy of Kid from Kwangtung, my previous 2 versions were a semi b/w version and the other a F/S 5th 0r 6 generation, washed out print.

From the days of video tapes, our genre hasn't been taken seriously by media companies, so why should we expect anything different now!

Bless

I believe that if you're going to a job, you might as well do it properly. Or you don't get my money.

Often it's a case of a dvd being messed up by unnesscary tampering, especially with the Fortune Star titles.

Now this doesn't apply to movies that only remain as cropped 4:3 tape masters, I was always happy to pick up an old school rare from Vengeance or Tai Seng.

But it does seem to me that HK movies often get short shrift on dvd from distributors who keep tampering with the films. And I have other genres to spend my money on that don't get this stupid tampering.

However, this doesn't apply to Media Blasters's Shaw line which, with the exception of The Master, were all good anamorphic discs with proper NTSC picture, orginal audio, good subs....so it seems even if you do the right thing, it doesn't help!

[Guest Markgway]

I don't believe fans are too demanding.

Original language, anamorphic OAR, progressive scan, uncut editions should be STANDARD not a luxury.

I never complain unless there's something to complain about... and MAJOR studios get every bit as much criticism as Hong Kong distributors.

[Killer Meteor]

It's weird that major studios let their standards drop on kung fu.

ENTER THE DRAGON: only avaliable in an alternate cut with badly dubbed in new dialogue and missing music

GORGEOUS: missing 20min

NEW LEGEND OF SHAOLIN and HERO AMONG HEROES: no Chinese audio

DRUNKEN MASTER: incomplete Cantonese audio track

DRAGON THE BRUCE LEE STORY: blurry non-anamorphic transfer

[waywardsage]

I believe that if you're going to a job, you might as well do it properly. Or you don't get my money.

Often it's a case of a dvd being messed up by unnesscary tampering, especially with the Fortune Star titles.

Now this doesn't apply to movies that only remain as cropped 4:3 tape masters, I was always happy to pick up an old school rare from Vengeance or Tai Seng.

But it does seem to me that HK movies often get short shrift on dvd from distributors who keep tampering with the films. And I have other genres to spend my money on that don't get this stupid tampering.

However, this doesn't apply to Media Blasters's Shaw line which, with the exception of The Master, were all good anamorphic discs with proper NTSC picture, orginal audio, good subs....so it seems even if you do the right thing, it doesn't help!

Yeah, I was pissed when I popped "The Master" into my PS3 and it was not anamorphic! WTF?!! In this day and age there were still non-anamorphic discs authored?

[Killer Meteor]

I also think it was bad of Dragon Dynasty to buy up all English speaking rights for their Shaw line. I suspect in 2005 a UK or Aussie company could have got a better start with 5 Venoms or King Boxer then Heroic Ones, simply due to the pop culture legacy

[Jeru the Damaja]

So hold up, Dragon Dynasty went under?

[Killer Meteor]

So hold up, Dragon Dynasty went under?

I think they're limited themselves to new stuff.

[karatemoviecom]

I'd like to chime in here on this issue, as I am in the business of selling Classic Kung Fu DVD's and Videos for over 17 years now.

The main reasons why many classic films are not out on DVD are as follows:

1. Limited market for older content. The Asian community mainly favors TVB/ATV series on DVD and newer movies (IE within the last 5 years). Most Asian distributors could care less about the US market

2. The older film negatives & positives were never kept in vaulted storage, and thus are in a TERRIBLE shape of preservation (recently I contacted Tai Seng about putting some of the old Rainbow/Pan-Asia titles onto DVD, and was told even the video tape masters are no longer available).

3. DVD & Torrent piracy has KILLED any profit margin that is to be made on DVD/Blu Ray (why pay when you can get it for free.)

4. (And this is my favorite) CHEAP ASS CUSTOMERS.

I cant tell you how many times a week I get emails from potential customers saying point blank "this movie ain't worth $10.00. Tell Ya what- I'll pay you $5 for a DVD-R copy with cover art, and If I don't like it, Just refund my $$$, OK?"

If people would stop downloading & BUY ORIGINALS- MABYE Hong Kong will start to wake up, but for now, I don't have much hope anymore.

Eagle G

http://www.karatemovie.com

[blue_skies]

I'd like to chime in here on this issue, as I am in the business of selling Classic Kung Fu DVD's and Videos for over 17 years now.

The main reasons why many classic films are not out on DVD are as follows:

1. Limited market for older content. The Asian community mainly favors TVB/ATV series on DVD and newer movies (IE within the last 5 years). Most Asian distributors could care less about the US market

2. The older film negatives & positives were never kept in vaulted storage, and thus are in a TERRIBLE shape of preservation (recently I contacted Tai Seng about putting some of the old Rainbow/Pan-Asia titles onto DVD, and was told even the video tape masters are no longer available).

3. DVD & Torrent piracy has KILLED any profit margin that is to be made on DVD/Blu Ray (why pay when you can get it for free.)

4. (And this is my favorite) CHEAP ASS CUSTOMERS.

I cant tell you how many times a week I get emails from potential customers saying point blank "this movie ain't worth $10.00. Tell Ya what- I'll pay you $5 for a DVD-R copy with cover art, and If I don't like it, Just refund my $$$, OK?"

If people would stop downloading & BUY ORIGINALS- MABYE Hong Kong will start to wake up, but for now, I don't have much hope anymore.

Eagle G

http://www.karatemovie.com

I think the biggest problem from what I can see regards to Shaw Brother movies(this may be applies to all martial arts and kung fu movies) especially is the movies that are being released. Looking around the forum at the all-time favourites and many of them have been released in the last few years. If you want to develop an audience get them to see the best and get drawn in from there. admittedly I haven't watched so many and they may be great movies that were released. But in my mind the average/good movies aren't going to draw people back in. It's the great movies that really leave an impression

[karatemoviecom]

Most distributors can't pick and chose. It's either the whole catalog or nothing.

[INCspot]

I'd like to chime in here on this issue, as I am in the business of selling Classic Kung Fu DVD's and Videos for over 17 years now.

The main reasons why many classic films are not out on DVD are as follows:

1. Limited market for older content. The Asian community mainly favors TVB/ATV series on DVD and newer movies (IE within the last 5 years). Most Asian distributors could care less about the US market

2. The older film negatives & positives were never kept in vaulted storage, and thus are in a TERRIBLE shape of preservation (recently I contacted Tai Seng about putting some of the old Rainbow/Pan-Asia titles onto DVD, and was told even the video tape masters are no longer available).

3. DVD & Torrent piracy has KILLED any profit margin that is to be made on DVD/Blu Ray (why pay when you can get it for free.)

4. (And this is my favorite) CHEAP ASS CUSTOMERS.

I cant tell you how many times a week I get emails from potential customers saying point blank "this movie ain't worth $10.00. Tell Ya what- I'll pay you $5 for a DVD-R copy with cover art, and If I don't like it, Just refund my $$$, OK?"

If people would stop downloading & BUY ORIGINALS- MABYE Hong Kong will start to wake up, but for now, I don't have much hope anymore.

Eagle G

http://www.karatemovie.com

I'd gladly buy originals if they were available in all-region NTSC format. If HKL/Cine Asia were to release the same editions of Jackie Chan's early films (DRAGON FIST, SHAOLIN WOODEN MEN, SNAKE & CRANE ARTS OF SHAOLIN) that they have in the UK, or a Hong Kong distributor were to release all-region versions of them, I'd buy them without hesitation. Buying an all-region DVD player isn't an option for me.

[karatemoviecom]

An all code machine is less then $50. Again, Classic Kung Fu is a NICHE market. That means that they are not selling 100,000 copies on a title. 1,000 IF THEY ARE LUCKY!

[dionbrother]

I've gone through 6 all region players in the last decade. Any Phillips dvd player can be hacked. And they can always be bought for under $50 at Target.

[INCspot]

An all code machine is less then $50. Again, Classic Kung Fu is a NICHE market. That means that they are not selling 100,000 copies on a title. 1,000 IF THEY ARE LUCKY!

No need to shout.

[blue_skies]

Buying an all-region DVD player isn't an option for me.

surely if money is tight you could put away a few bucks here and there until you can get one? I'm sure you could get a multi-region DVD player for a lot less than 50 bucks like those guys above mentioned, to fit your budget.

[karatemoviecom]

I was not shouting, just making a point!