Member 66 Mantis Posted March 7, 2012 Member Share Posted March 7, 2012 I remember reading an interview with John Woo in a Canadian based Asian film magazine (can't remember the exact title except the word "Eye" was in it) back in the mid-late 90s. He went into detail about why he so dislikes the film. Part of the reason was he wanted to film it as a prequel (common knowledge). But what really struck me was that it was originally 160 min. in length! He and Tsui Hark were both "encouraged" to shorten the film which they did... to 130 min. Supposedly they were both happy with the edts they made. Then shortly before it was released, an additional 30 or so minutes were cut (just random cuts made by the "Powers That Be") against both Tsui's and Woo's wishes. The result is the 103 minute version that we all know. Can't help but wonder if someday, somewhere, somehow, some way, one of the two longer cuts will be discovered? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Phoenix Posted March 7, 2012 Member Share Posted March 7, 2012 I thought Tsui Hark did the final edit without John Woo's approval? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrator KUNG FU BOB Posted March 7, 2012 Administrator Share Posted March 7, 2012 Cool info! I'd never heard any of that before except the nixed prequel idea. Thanks for sharing this. I would love to see an extended version. What a wild possibility. I just watched both of these movies again (for the fifteenth time?) a month or so ago (skipped part 3 though- once was enough). I showed my son the first one. He really loved it. Then I watched the sequel the next day. He's going to watch part 2 soon. Speaking of which, today I showed him his first Shaw Brothers film, and he was wearing the A BETTER TOMORROW shirt that I made. Good day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Phoenix Posted March 7, 2012 Member Share Posted March 7, 2012 I once saw an awesome A Better Tomorrow poster in a shop, that I've never seen since. Never seen it online either, and I still regret not buying it. The t-shirt sounds great! I saw the sequel a couple of weeks ago after years and loved it. Love these films to this day but have avoided the third since I first watched it in the 90s. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member 66 Mantis Posted March 7, 2012 Author Member Share Posted March 7, 2012 Wish I could dig up that magazine (still have, but can't find it-Digest size). But yeah, it was right from Woo's mouth (so much for he and Hark not getting along, at least at that point). The second editing (hack) job was done likely by the Triads as they wanted toget it as short as possible to ensure more screenings (more money). That alone helps explain Woo's essential disowning of it. When asked what was cut (hacked) out, he said, "Alot of Chow Yun Fat and Leslie Cheung footage. I like all my films, but that one...". And I also avoid Better Tomorrow 3 like the plague. My hatred for that film knows almost no bounds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Phoenix Posted March 7, 2012 Member Share Posted March 7, 2012 Thanks for that info Mantis, it changes the commonly held views about the final film. I always wanted to see the extended version, but knowing the HK studios I'm not that hopeful. If it was a hollywood flick someone would have likely released it for a version would have been leaked, probably. Yet another unreleased version of a film I want to see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member 66 Mantis Posted March 7, 2012 Author Member Share Posted March 7, 2012 No problem, guys. When (if) I find the mag in question, I'll retype that part of the ineterview. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member masterofoneinchpunch Posted March 7, 2012 Member Share Posted March 7, 2012 Here's some quotes from John Woo on the film from Robert Elder 2004: John Woo Interviews: Q: The first cut was three hours and forty minutes, is that right? JW: NO, almost three hours. We were forced to cut it under two hours for the theaterical release. Q: The way that worked was: Tsui Hark took one part and you took one part, edited them separately and put them together, is that right? JW: Yeah, we only had a week to edit the whole film. [Laughs] JW: I wasn't excited about the idea of the story of A Better Tomorrow II, and actually it was Tsui Hark's idea. In my version, I put my focus on the two brothers. But after we had to cut the film, and a lot of my good moments were taken out. And I didn't feel happy about it. All of a sudden, all the focus turned to Dean Shek's character, which wasn't my wish. I found that creatively, we have different ways. ... And then after A Better Tomorrow II, I found we had quite a big gap between us. I was asked to make A Better Tomorrow III, and I refused, because I didn't want to do it anymore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member 66 Mantis Posted March 8, 2012 Author Member Share Posted March 8, 2012 Found the mag! It was called "Asian Eye" with the subheading, "The Occidental Tourists Guide to Oriental Pop Cinema". It was a Canadian based magazine. The one I have is listed as issue Number One (for all I know, it could have been the last as well) and lists Spring 1993 as the release date. This was one of many Hong Kong mags that was springing up everywhere at this period. None lasted for more than a few issues. This mag was made of thick sturdy paper (it's still in great shape which is amazing considering it was buried beneath a ton pf crap for nearly two decades). It's 75 pages long and featured mostly film reviews (both modern H.K. as well as classic Fu and even some Japanese stuff thrown in). The editor was Colin Geddes (could it be the same person who hosts Kung Fu Fridays on this board?) and had many contibutors (not sure who wrote what). The article in question is called "Biting the Bullet with John Woo" and it covered alot of ground (Martin Scorsese was a fan, his upcoming film, Hard Targer is to be Executive Produced by Sam Raimi), pretty much all bases were quickly covered here. The discussion of A Better Tomorrow 2 was brief, but revealing (and differs slightly from the 2004 interview that masterofoneinchpunch shared). Here's how it went. Q: Is it true that you once said that A Better Tomorrow 2 is probably the worst film ever made? Woo: No... (laughs) it's just that I don't like it that much.We didn't have enough time for post production and I really didn't like the editing. A Better Tomorrow 2 was two hours and 40 minutes long, but the producers wanted it to be reduced to 140 minutes. So we had to cut. Tsui Hark and I did the cuts. He cut some and I did too, but then another person did some cuts that I didn't really like. Q: What had been cut out? Woo: Alot of the Chow Yun Fat and Leslie Cheung characters. Some very good sequences. I tried to re-edit it, but by that time, it was too late. The film had to be marketed by that time. I like all my films, but this one... That means (according to this interview, anyway) that A) someone other than Woo and Tsui did the final hack job on the film and there may exist 160 and 140 minute cuts of this film that maybe, hopefully will one day see the light of day... or not. Maybe Bey Logan should do some investigating? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member masterofoneinchpunch Posted March 8, 2012 Member Share Posted March 8, 2012 Funny how time changes one's thoughts on film (nothing new if you follow interviews). I have a better one I found that corresponds more to the one you wrote. Interview with Kenneth E. Hall November 8, 1995 from John Woo: The Films. "[The] original cut was two hours and 40 minutes, which was pretty long. You know, the original concept was pretty close to Godfather Part II. [There was] more story on Chow Yun-fat and Leslie Cheung -- because while I'm shooting I realized that Dean Shek's part wouldn't work. But Tsui Hark insisted on having him, and after we shot the whole film, we got the release date [as] one week. So we were forced to cut -- we cut about one hour of footage, so we had to separate into six or seven groups, I cut, Hark cut the first two reels, and I cut three or four, and the editor cut another two or three reels, and I never had the chance to put it together and look. I saw it in the theater -- I was shocked -- why was the movie so choppy? Some of the story didn't make sense. I would have to imagine with the quickness it was cut too that the workprint is most likely gone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member 66 Mantis Posted March 8, 2012 Author Member Share Posted March 8, 2012 Sounds like one common theme that runs through the various interviews was that it was a rush job to hack out an hour's worth of footage with a minimum of three people doing the cutting and at least two very different views on what should be cut... sheesh!!! Would LOVE to be able to see the original 160 min. work print to get an idea of just what the hell this film was originally envisioned as. Woo compared it somewhat to Godfather 2 which has all kinds of implications attached to it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member spannick Posted March 10, 2012 Member Share Posted March 10, 2012 watch the HK Long Trailer (over 4 mins) to see glimpses of deleted footage. Leslie Cheung being beaten up, meeting Emily Chu after it, Dean Shek & Chow Yun Fat playing with a bird. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrator KUNG FU BOB Posted March 10, 2012 Administrator Share Posted March 10, 2012 watch the HK Long Trailer (over 4 mins) to see glimpses of deleted footage. Leslie Cheung being beaten up, meeting Emily Chu after it, Dean Shek & Chow Yun Fat playing with a bird. Thanks for the info. Where can we see this "HK Long Trailer"? Does anybody have a link that they could provide? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member kowloon Posted March 10, 2012 Member Share Posted March 10, 2012 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member kowloon Posted March 10, 2012 Member Share Posted March 10, 2012 like the part with the bird right? i've seen the movie many times but i saw that part for the first time Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member 66 Mantis Posted March 10, 2012 Author Member Share Posted March 10, 2012 Wow, thanks Kowloon. Never saw this trailer (or those scenes) before! That's enough to wet the old appetite and keep some faint hope that the missing hour of footage may yet turn up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrator KUNG FU BOB Posted March 11, 2012 Administrator Share Posted March 11, 2012 Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Cognoscente Posted June 4, 2021 Member Share Posted June 4, 2021 On 3/7/2012 at 8:52 PM, 66 Mantis said: But what really struck me was that it was originally 160 min. in length! He and Tsui Hark were both "encouraged" to shorten the film which they did... to 130 min. Supposedly they were both happy with the edits they made. Then shortly before it was released, an additional 30 or so minutes were cut (just random cuts made by the "Powers That Be") against both Tsui's and Woo's wishes. The result is the 103 minute version that we all know. Cinema City were the worst butchers when it came to a HK studio cutting up their own movies. Look at what happened with The Dragon From Russia. That was also two and a half hours long before it was heavily cut down to an incoherent mess. Bullet in the Head was also heavily cut but at least it flowed better. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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