Member Keung Posted October 25, 2013 Member Share Posted October 25, 2013 I feel like skipping forward to fight scenes is standard and acceptable. On your second or third viewing, maybe. I wouldn't ever do that the first time around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member makone Posted October 25, 2013 Member Share Posted October 25, 2013 I saw this last night and really enjoyed it, it`s definately not a comedy, sure it`s got a couple of light hearted moments. The Ken Lo fight is the only one he fights from his back, which made sense to me because he was getting nowhere on his feet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member DiP Posted October 25, 2013 Author Member Share Posted October 25, 2013 I also think that Donnie's age does show in this film more than in others....but the choice not to subtly undercrank certain shots might be the reason he looks slower too. A good make-up department definitely sells. The look Donnie dons for most of the film is intended to reflect the character's daily struggles and depression as an undercover. I also think less undercranking here was to give the action a more believable look. Good choice I'd say. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member TibetanWhiteCrane Posted October 25, 2013 Member Share Posted October 25, 2013 He only stated his opinion about the choreography. It's indicative of a focus that was lost on this forum some time ago. ..........Bullcrap! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member odioustrident Posted October 25, 2013 Member Share Posted October 25, 2013 ..........Bullcrap! Haha you know it's true! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member TibetanWhiteCrane Posted October 25, 2013 Member Share Posted October 25, 2013 I don't agree... see my rebuttal in the What's with the slump? thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator Karlos Posted October 26, 2013 Moderator Share Posted October 26, 2013 Saw it tonight - BIG letdown. Not sure where to begin but the killer for me was the shocking lack of action in this. Seriously, there's very little here and most of it felt rehashed from Flashpoint. Almost nothing worked - meandering script, awful sentimentality, and perhaps the cardinal sin for a HK action film, a poor climax. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member DiP Posted October 26, 2013 Author Member Share Posted October 26, 2013 I'm getting the feeling that this has now become Donnie's new Legend of the Wolf. Half of people like it, other half hate it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Gwai LO Posted October 26, 2013 Member Share Posted October 26, 2013 Saw it tonight - BIG letdown. Not sure where to begin but the killer for me was the shocking lack of action in this. Seriously, there's very little here and most of it felt rehashed from Flashpoint. Almost nothing worked - meandering script, awful sentimentality, and perhaps the cardinal sin for a HK action film, a poor climax. the end fight was the biggest let down ever. at least in flashpoint the last fight was worth the wait.. this end fight was sooooooo boring and the way it ended..blah! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Tigerstyles Posted October 27, 2013 Member Share Posted October 27, 2013 Just watched it! Great work good old Triad undercover flick good realistic fights, Pity Clarence Ford had to put his trademark mad wirework jumps into the chase scenes mad it a bit comical on a commercial level Bring on the Blu Ray Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Tigerstyles Posted October 27, 2013 Member Share Posted October 27, 2013 Saw it tonight - BIG letdown. Not sure where to begin but the killer for me was the shocking lack of action in this. Seriously, there's very little here and most of it felt rehashed from Flashpoint. Almost nothing worked - meandering script, awful sentimentality, and perhaps the cardinal sin for a HK action film, a poor climax. Looked like a Chinese film to me and they seem to put a cheap tone on all there productions Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member sifu iron perm Posted October 27, 2013 Member Share Posted October 27, 2013 man, that's pretty damn depressing. The teasers, hype and pics really gave some Hope.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member FrankBolte Posted October 28, 2013 Member Share Posted October 28, 2013 watched it last night... its not as bad as it comes across by all those recent comments made.. Sure,it cant touch SPL or flashpoint ... but I will buy the dvd when it comes out or bluray or whatever Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member VenomsFan Posted October 28, 2013 Member Share Posted October 28, 2013 Looked like a Chinese film to me and they seem to put a cheap tone on all there productions Tigerstyles hit the nail on the head. People are not only expecting, but spoiled by The Raid, for example. If you watch mainland films this is right up there with the production, story, etc... THAT's why it reminded me of a JC film. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member TibetanWhiteCrane Posted October 28, 2013 Member Share Posted October 28, 2013 Oh great, I LOATHE most mainland flicks and the overall mainland influence on HK productions... which is sadly inevitable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator Karlos Posted October 28, 2013 Moderator Share Posted October 28, 2013 That's precisely the vibe I got whilst watching SPECIAL ID - it feels and looks cheap. I also got the feeling the production had been compromised somewhere along the way - less action and more sappy drama, seems to have been the mandate. I wasn't expecting THE RAID levels of action but I was expecting more than I got, which was a mess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member D1 Ma Posted October 28, 2013 Member Share Posted October 28, 2013 People are not only expecting, but spoiled by The Raid, for example. . That's funny How dared Gareth to make a great MA flick! He ruined it for all those crappy filmmakers. He should immediately stop working on Berandal! On the other hand we should praise RZA for making crappy movies. After watching them we gonna appreciate Special ID much more! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member DiP Posted October 28, 2013 Author Member Share Posted October 28, 2013 People are not only expecting, but spoiled by The Raid, for example. 100% valid. That's how things work for general movie audiences/viewers though. Once certain movies set/raise the bar for their type of genres, it will be hard for filmmakers to please most people with new outings without either parties having expectations/criterias of concepts that started it all. More or less, using the same formula while trying to play with it in different ways is what most action fans want and expect to get. When Ong Bak came out, people wanted the style/approach to continue with the sequels so they had expectations, as they did with The Protector 2 based on the success of the original. Ip Man came out and people wanted more of the specific style of wing chun Donnie portrayed and so came expectations for the sequel (and the Ip Man knock-offs to a less extent). Now this movie had people expecting to see the same style of MMA/exchanges Donnie broke out with getting outdone after being stuck into SPL and Flash Point for a good while now. And look how they were received. I hope it won't happen with Berendal because people have expectations going sky-high since The Raid came out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member VenomsFan Posted October 29, 2013 Member Share Posted October 29, 2013 I should clarify. IMO they were expecting the fight intensity seen in The Raid because it was Yen's return to a modern actioner. It's as DiP said, so I think the trailer which showed nonstop action didn't help. If the trailer stayed to the Mainland Chinese film style not emphasizing the action so much, the audience reaction may have been different? Like I said, I didn't have much expectations and wasn't a big fan of Yen. Also seen my share of mainland films and this is the best of the lot - for Yen and mainland Chinese films. I also think there is that drama / comedy audience from the mainland that went to see this that would be pleasantly surprised. From a filmmaking standpoint in China, some of the locations and risks taken are to be desired - especially a car chase shootout which I don't think would have been greenlit by China if Yen wasn't on board. Some things to think about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member OpiumKungFuCracker Posted October 29, 2013 Member Share Posted October 29, 2013 Bring on the bluray!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator One Armed Boxer Posted November 1, 2013 Moderator Share Posted November 1, 2013 Watched the whole movie yesterday (have already seen the action scenes which were great as always imo) with an open mind and with as much low expectations as possible amongst all heavy criticism the movie's been getting throughout this past week. Sorry naysayers but I really enjoyed the movie altogether, even more so than Flash Point. A thorough review coming up very shortly, stay tuned. Looking forward to your in-depth review DIP! Although I do think your coverage of Yen's movies down to the very minutiae details, along with your fierce defensiveness of anything he does, may have created the wrong impression that if Yen was to walk on-screen, fart, and then walk off, you'd still say it was a quality scene. I'm getting the feeling that this has now become Donnie's new Legend of the Wolf. Half of people like it, other half hate it. I disagree, 'Legend of the Wolf' seems to split people down the middle. 'Special ID' so far seems to be around an 80/20 split of those who say it sucks to those who say it's enjoyable. Now this movie had people expecting to see the same style of MMA/exchanges Donnie broke out with getting outdone after being stuck into SPL and Flash Point for a good while now. And look how they were received. I think the problem is MMA grappling choreography is boring. It's exaclty the same reason why the countless Tap-Out movies that used to get churned out a few years ago died a slow death, it's simply not exciting to watch. Donnie deserved all the praise he got with 'SPL' and 'Flash Point', because he managed to incorporate MMA moves while still maintaining the HK action aesthetic, with kicks and punching combinations thrown in seamlessly. 'Special ID' goes too much in the other direction, with so much time spent on the ground it seems closer to those useless Tap-Out movies than it does to a HK action flick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member OpiumKungFuCracker Posted November 1, 2013 Member Share Posted November 1, 2013 @One Armed Boxer, you're not fooling anyone/ you know you like the movie. Otherwise, why would you spend so much time on something you don't like?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator One Armed Boxer Posted November 1, 2013 Moderator Share Posted November 1, 2013 @One Armed Boxer, you're not fooling anyone/ you know you like the movie. Otherwise, why would you spend so much time on something you don't like?? Damn OpiumKungFuCracker...you called my bluff and saw right through me! You're bang on, in fact if we were to do a comparison, you could say 'Special ID' is to me exactly what 'Bangkok Revenge' is to you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member DiP Posted November 1, 2013 Author Member Share Posted November 1, 2013 Looking forward to your in-depth review DIP! Although I do think your coverage of Yen's movies down to the very minutiae details, along with your fierce defensiveness of anything he does, may have created the wrong impression that if Yen was to walk on-screen, fart, and then walk off, you'd still say it was a quality scene. I disagree, 'Legend of the Wolf' seems to split people down the middle. 'Special ID' so far seems to be around an 80/20 split of those who say it sucks to those who say it's enjoyable. I think the problem is MMA grappling choreography is boring. It's exaclty the same reason why the countless Tap-Out movies that used to get churned out a few years ago died a slow death, it's simply not exciting to watch. Donnie deserved all the praise he got with 'SPL' and 'Flash Point', because he managed to incorporate MMA moves while still maintaining the HK action aesthetic, with kicks and punching combinations thrown in seamlessly. 'Special ID' goes too much in the other direction, with so much time spent on the ground it seems closer to those useless Tap-Out movies than it does to a HK action flick. Hahaha! That would've applied years ago though as I'm more open-minded and appreciative of different opinions these days. I can be argumentative but that largely depends on aspects of discussing movies (such as hows, whys, ifs, logics etc). When it comes to subjective things, it's cool. Well, the movie has been out for two weeks now (as of today) and at the moment the hate bandwagon dominates. I think in the future, it will probably change though to the other half or even more so liking it. Time will tell. That's the thing though. When you emphasize on a certain subject, that will automatically become the main thing of what you want to showcase. In this case, MMA/grappling. And what did Donnie do with his cop/gangster trilogy? He delivered the premise, each movie trying out something different with one and the same concept after the last one. Knowing Donnie's strive for improvement, what he wanted to achieve here was creating more realistic-looking and technical MMA/grappling coupled with good ol' fashioned HK-style hand-to-hand combat. IMO, the problem is not how Donnie set up the choreography but it's whether people can appreciate MMA being featured more than the hand-to-hand combat compared to the previous movies. Because I've noticed that the art transcended onscreen isn't completely accepted yet by long-time martial arts movie fans that are so used to 80s/mid 90s Hong Kong action movies and other MA movies later on inspired by them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member OpiumKungFuCracker Posted November 1, 2013 Member Share Posted November 1, 2013 Damn OpiumKungFuCracker...you called my bluff and saw right through me! You're bang on, in fact if we were to do a comparison, you could say 'Special ID' is to me exactly what 'Bangkok Revenge' is to you! No, not Bangkok Revenge, the absolute worst two words put together ever!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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