Moderator One Armed Boxer Posted September 18, 2011 Moderator Share Posted September 18, 2011 Get it, bro! It's a good story and the choreography's great. Cool, will have to give it a look at some point. Interesting difference in titles, in the US it`s called `Born to Defense`, & in the UK it`s called `Born to Defend`! I guess the UK wins on grammar points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member blue_skies Posted September 18, 2011 Member Share Posted September 18, 2011 Get it, bro! It's a good story and the choreography's great. I had the vhs and some of the action scenes were a bit dark especially during the end fight. When I upgraded to dvd the copy I got was much better. Here's what I have. It's a great copy to get. http://www.amazon.com/Born-Defense-Jet-Li-Collection/dp/B0001KL3A0/ref=sr_1_2?s=movies-tv&ie=UTF8&qid=1316318699&sr=1-2 I'll have to dig my old tape out of storage sometime in the near future to watch it with fresh eyes as I don't recall this being particularly great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member andy338 Posted September 18, 2011 Member Share Posted September 18, 2011 I think the correct title is actually Born to Defense but it was changed to Defend as that's obviously grammatically correct. I enjoyed the movie and thought it was interesting to put Jet's wushu skills up against boxing. Plot is very simple with typical western bad guys causing trouble for the chinese until Jet steps up to defend them and it's quite dark too with a couple of deaths thrown in that after watching a lot of Jackie Chan films from that era I found quite unexpected. I do like to see Jet fighting without wires and so for me the fights were good and made the movie worth watching but i'd be hesitant to recommend it to anybody cos I also like The Master which most people think (along with Born to Defend) is one of Jet's worst efforts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member blue_skies Posted September 18, 2011 Member Share Posted September 18, 2011 I do like to see Jet fighting without wires and so for me the fights were good and made the movie worth watching but i'd be hesitant to recommend it to anybody cos I also like The Master which most people think (along with Born to Defend) is one of Jet's worst efforts. Really people think that lowly of "the Master"? I really like that movie, obviously it's flawed but it's a great minimally or no wires movie with Jet really showcasing his stuff in a grounded performance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrator KUNG FU BOB Posted September 18, 2011 Administrator Share Posted September 18, 2011 Wow, cheers KFB, always appreciated! Sorry to be a pain, but since you mentioned you have `Retreat of the Godfather`, could you possibly DVD-R that for me as well? I definitely owe you one...well, several...for your kindness! How is `Born to Defend`? I`ve heard mixed things about it, but know it`s one of the few modern day efforts from Jet which feature more grounded action, as well as being his only directorial outing, is it worth a watch? As long as the tape doesn't have a "copy block", no problem. BORN TO DEFEND is not a great movie- extremely simple plot, no surpises, overly broad performances- yet, as many others have said, I enjoyed seeing Jet grounded and thought the film was pretty cool. He still takes off, but in an actual skill and reality-based manner. Well worth checking out bro. Get it, bro! It's a good story and the choreography's great. I had the vhs and some of the action scenes were a bit dark especially during the end fight. When I upgraded to dvd the copy I got was much better. Here's what I have. It's a great copy to get. http://www.amazon.com/Born-Defense-Jet-Li-Collection/dp/B0001KL3A0/ref=sr_1_2?s=movies-tv&ie=UTF8&qid=1316318699&sr=1-2 I was always curious- is this US release butchered/altered (music, edits, et) like all of the other US releases from MiramAxe and Disney? If not, I'd love to pick it up. Anyone know? I think the correct title is actually Born to Defense but it was changed to Defend as that's obviously grammatically correct. I enjoyed the movie and thought it was interesting to put Jet's wushu skills up against boxing. Plot is very simple with typical western bad guys causing trouble for the chinese until Jet steps up to defend them and it's quite dark too with a couple of deaths thrown in that after watching a lot of Jackie Chan films from that era I found quite unexpected. I do like to see Jet fighting without wires and so for me the fights were good and made the movie worth watching but i'd be hesitant to recommend it to anybody cos I also like The Master which most people think (along with Born to Defend) is one of Jet's worst efforts. I agree with everything you've said Andy. I'm also a fan of the oft panned THE MASTER. I've often wondered if I enjoyed it so much because it was the first Jet film I ever saw, and it was in the theater. Great memory. But when I've rewatched it, yes, there are ridiculous, OTT stereotype peformances of the American characters, with lots of "essay" this and "essay" that, but the fighting is awesome. Love Jerry Trimble (the lead heavy) and Yuen Wah's fights, and Jet shines in both his performance and fighting. For me, it's always a fun one. Well, opinions vary right? That's what keeps talking to fellow fans interesting. Really people think that lowly of "the Master"? I really like that movie, obviously it's flawed but it's a great minimally or no wires movie with Jet really showcasing his stuff in a grounded performance. Cool, now there's three of us. LOL Yeah, I don't get the hate for this one. I'd watch this three times in a row before I'd watch KUNG FU CULT MASTER again. But that's just me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator One Armed Boxer Posted September 18, 2011 Moderator Share Posted September 18, 2011 Really people think that lowly of "the Master"? Apparently so! The movie has an interesting history - it was actually made and set to be released in 1989, but the studio considered it to be so bad they refused to put it out and shelved it, for what was supposed to be forever. It`s worth bearing in mind that in 1989 Tsui Hark was still viewed as a director who could do no wrong (he`s certainly had many high and low points since that time!), so I guess the studio execs where left scratching their heads when they went from watching the likes of `Zu: Warriors from Magic Mountain` & `Peking Opera Blues`, to the story of some wushu kid who only had a few movies under his belt in an LA based fish out of water story. It was Hark & Li`s first movie together, however despite everybody viewing it as an unwatchable disaster, Hark and Li decided to work together again on a tale of Wong Fei Hung, with Li as the title character, in what would become `Once Upon a Time in China` a couple of years later in 1991. As is common knowledge, the movie was a massive success, firmly putting Li on the map and spawning various sequels, 3 of which starred Li. Looking to quickly cash in on the success of `Once Upon a Time in China`, a year later in 1992 the studio took `The Master` off the shelf, re-titled it `Wong Fei Hung `92`, and released it in Hong Kong. That`s the story in a nutshell of how `The Master` saw the light of day. In my personal opinion, I think how much you enjoy the movie depends on what attitude you have when you`re watching it. If you view it as an 80`s American B-movie which just happens to star Jet Li & Yuen Wah, then you`re going to have a ball with the abundance of cheesy lines, bad acting, and pretty good martial arts scenes. However if you go into it expecting a HK action standard movie from a director who was then at the peak of his powers in Tsui Hark, and a performer who was also at the peak of his physical ability in Jet Li, you`re going to be bitterly disappointed. As long as the tape doesn't have a "copy block", no problem. Thanks KFB! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member gravedigger666 Posted September 18, 2011 Member Share Posted September 18, 2011 you can download it from here http://www.megaupload.com/?d=ZUV983RK http://www.megaupload.com/?d=VG9PI3ZJ http://www.megaupload.com/?d=V9FC8IZD password lopata...sorry if this is against rules but people use torrents here all the time tho and and at least this does not have genuine western release. Which it deserves so badly, this is best Jet Li movies for us who like more down to earth stuff. Dick Wei so cool too.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member blue_skies Posted September 18, 2011 Member Share Posted September 18, 2011 Apparently so! The movie has an interesting history - it was actually made and set to be released in 1989, but the studio considered it to be so bad they refused to put it out and shelved it, for what was supposed to be forever. It`s worth bearing in mind that in 1989 Tsui Hark was still viewed as a director who could do no wrong (he`s certainly had many high and low points since that time!), so I guess the studio execs where left scratching their heads when they went from watching the likes of `Zu: Warriors from Magic Mountain` & `Peking Opera Blues`, to the story of some wushu kid who only had a few movies under his belt in an LA based fish out of water story. It was Hark & Li`s first movie together, however despite everybody viewing it as an unwatchable disaster, Hark and Li decided to work together again on a tale of Wong Fei Hung, with Li as the title character, in what would become `Once Upon a Time in China` a couple of years later in 1991. As is common knowledge, the movie was a massive success, firmly putting Li on the map and spawning various sequels, 3 of which starred Li. Looking to quickly cash in on the success of `Once Upon a Time in China`, a year later in 1992 the studio took `The Master` off the shelf, re-titled it `Wong Fei Hung `92`, and released it in Hong Kong. That`s the story in a nutshell of how `The Master` saw the light of day. In my personal opinion, I think how much you enjoy the movie depends on what attitude you have when you`re watching it. If you view it as an 80`s American B-movie which just happens to star Jet Li & Yuen Wah, then you`re going to have a ball with the abundance of cheesy lines, bad acting, and pretty good martial arts scenes. However if you go into it expecting a HK action standard movie from a director who was then at the peak of his powers in Tsui Hark, and a performer who was also at the peak of his physical ability in Jet Li, you`re going to be bitterly disappointed. Thanks KFB! Cheers for that it made an interesting read getting a little back story to the release of "the Master". I suppose when I first watched it I was just happy to see another Jet Li movie, with opportunities few and far between back then and my local post office used to stock various movies on VHS for a fiver. Every few weeks they would rotate the stock and if I was lucky I would pick up a Jet Li or a Jackie Chan or something. Anyway I've always had a soft spot for the film even as you say it's got some terrible acting, yet I've always enjoyed it tremendously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member andy338 Posted September 18, 2011 Member Share Posted September 18, 2011 Jet himself mentions in an interview that even if you make a good movie it has to be what the audience want to watch at that time which is why many films don't do so well on there original release but can perhaps be appreciated at a later time. Gordon Chan talks about this too on the Fist of Legend dvd saying that it didn't do as well as had been hoped largely because they were up against Jurassic Park and an audience that wanted CGI & special effects that had become bored of kung fu movies. As others have said already to western audiences kung fu was still fresh and exciting (and difficult to get hold of) so I like many others would watch and enjoy almost anything with good action starring Jet, Jackie, Sammo and would overlook cheesy plots & bad acting. Nowadays when I watch stuff like Jackie's Lo Wei movies or The Master or Born to Defend I think there's perhaps an added nostalgia value that increases the fun which is why i'd prefer to watch Game of Death 2, Shaolin Wooden Men, Revenge of the Ninja and The Master over movies of a supposed higher quality much to the bemusement of others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member ShaOW!linDude Posted September 18, 2011 Member Share Posted September 18, 2011 I'll have to dig my old tape out of storage sometime in the near future to watch it with fresh eyes as I don't recall this being particularly great. Really people think that lowly of "the Master"? I really like that movie, obviously it's flawed but it's a great minimally or no wires movie with Jet really showcasing his stuff in a grounded performance. I love The Master. (Now that makes 4 of us.) But I prefer Born To Defend. I just think it's the better of the 2. Both movies have their flaws and in both Westerners come across as the most corrupt and egotistical race of human beings on the planet. I enjoy the goofiness of Jet's character in TM. He's immature on 1 level (women) but mature on another (fighting). BTD has a more serious and darker tone and gives Jet better range as an actor, I think. I like the end fight better, too. I was always curious- is this US release butchered/altered (music, edits, et) like all of the other US releases from MiramAxe and Disney? If not, I'd love to pick it up. Anyone know? I don't remember there being any differences as far as edits go. I don't recall any altered music or voice-overs either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator One Armed Boxer Posted September 19, 2011 Moderator Share Posted September 19, 2011 I love The Master. (Now that makes 4 of us.) You can make it 5...although as I mentioned in my earlier post, I enjoy it more in an American action B-movie type of way rather that of an 80's HK action movie. The first time I watched it was when I picked up the HKL DVD back when it was released in '05, for anyone who loves the movie I would strongly recommend picking up this version. It comes with one of Bey Logan's always entertaining and incredibly informative commentary tracks, as well as an interview with Yuen Wah. It's interesting in the interview with Wah, he points out that he wanted to incorporate a more modern style of choreography, which I would guess would be referring to the more direct kickboxing style that the likes of Jackie Chan & co. where employing at the time, but Tsui Hark wanted to stick to the more traditional kung-fu style, with the stances and posturing, so that was the style he had to go with. I think it turned out pretty good. Seeing as there seems to be a few fans of the movie on here, I guess now would be a good time to post the finale, it makes a good comparison to 'Dragon Fight'! -ksNIJDqcF8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member ShaOW!linDude Posted September 25, 2011 Member Share Posted September 25, 2011 One more thing, I was an extra in this flic!!! Dig you!!!! That's cool, RW. The photos are killer. Now dish! Seriously, what was your role? Just as an extra for a few days or did you do any stunt work? 1 of the photos looks like it is in the alley where the 1st or 2nd fight scene took place. I loved that one. Li leg-sweeps 1 guy (if I recall) and it's sweet! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member ShaOW!linDude Posted September 27, 2011 Member Share Posted September 27, 2011 Very cool, RW. Thanks for sharing that and the photos. Too bad you didn't get to have your face kicked in by Wei or Li. This is making me want to see this again in the worst way now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Fat_Dragon Posted December 13, 2011 Member Share Posted December 13, 2011 http://www.amazon.com/Dragon-Fight/dp/B000W96DYG/ref=sr_1_2?s=movies-tv&ie=UTF8&qid=1323771105&sr=1-2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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