Throw Down (2004)

[masterofoneinchpunch]

Don't know that I've ever watched a Johnnie To film but I'd watch that!

I think you got a lot of good films in the future to watch but then again I'm a fanboy.

Sparrow is pretty close to my favorite as well.

Warning self-promotion: For those interested here is a thread I have on Johnnie To including the most complete filmography I have seen (well I did it).

On a side note I'm curious on Ric Meyer's commentary on this film. When I get to it I'll post notes here.

[Travis]

The Johnnie To films I have seen are:

The Heroic Trio

Where a Good Man Goes

Running Out of Time

Fulltime Killer

Running Out of Time 2

PTU

Running on Karma

Election

Triad Election

Throwdown

Mad Detective

Triangle

Vengence

Those are the ones I have seen that he has directed. I have seen many others he has produced.

As for the Ric Meyers commentary, it is pretty good even though he knows very little about the making of that movie, but I like Ric Meyers. He is accompanied on the commentary by a guy from Tai Sing.

[masterofoneinchpunch]

Travis, personally I think you have a lot of good films to look forward to (as I see I said this earlier ) and a few stinkers. Any idea what you are going to wach next from To?

On a side note: of course all of us have critic favorite films we have disliked. Personally, unless it is a deep hatred towards the film or aspects of the film (for me the lead in The Tin Drum), I eventually will want to rewatch it again. Though I think it is important to give it some time before the rewatching though. I hope in the future you will give Throwdown another chance (and at some point visit Sanshiro Sugata).

[DiP]

Any idea what is going to be next from To?

Romancing In Thin Air is in post and Motorway is still filming. Other projects in development include a police thriller with Andy Lau and Sammi Cheng. And then there's Election 3.

[masterofoneinchpunch]

Romancing In Thin Air is in post and Motorway is still filming. Other projects in development include a police thriller with Andy Lau and Sammi Cheng. And then there's Election 3.

Yeah he talked about Election 3 at TIFF. Not sure if I'm looking forward to Romancing In Thin Air but I will give it a chance.

[Travis]

I didn't realize I had seen so many Johnnie To films until I made that list. I think I have actually seen a few more but I could not remember for sure if I had seen some of his other films. I must have seen the majority of his movies.

He is a good filmmaker, but I probably won't watch another of his films until he makes something that looks interesting to me. I will probably skip Election 3.

[masterofoneinchpunch]

I didn't realize I had seen so many Johnnie To films until I made that list. I think I have actually seen a few more but I could not remember for sure if I had seen some of his other films. I must have seen the majority of his movies.

He is a good filmmaker, but I probably won't watch another of his films until he makes something that looks interesting to me. I will probably skip Election 3.

Well you got a bit more to watch to reach a majority since he has done at least 55 not counting TVB duty (trying to get a correct count is interesting since he took over directing duties on several films though is uncredited; if you are curious I can list them).

There are a few like The Big Heat (1988) (co-dir Andrew Kam Yeung-Wa), The Mission (1999), and Exiled (2006) I think you might like. While I love movies like Sparrow I'm not sure you would like it.

[Travis]

I may have seen The Big Heat and Exiled. I just can't remember for sure.

[Guest Markgway]

Not a fan of the film myself, but looks like the HK BD is pretty decent.

http://www.blu-ray.com/movies/Throw-Down-Blu-ray/27500/#Screenshots

[DiP]

Tai Seng still has the best subtitles. If they will re-release it on BD it will be worth it.

[Gwai LO]

Been debating on if I should pick this movie up. I've read some very mixed reviews on it but now that the movie has been out for a few years, does anyone have any new opinions on it? Grew to love it? Recommend buy/pass? I'm not really looking for a Gripping story, I just love judo and want to see some awesome judo fights. I don't think the fact people challenging to judo fights in the street would bother me.

[KUNG FU BOB]

Been debating on if I should pick this movie up. I've read some very mixed reviews on it but now that the movie has been out for a few years, does anyone have any new opinions on it? Grew to love it? Recommend buy/pass? I'm not really looking for a Gripping story, I just love judo and want to see some awesome judo fights. I don't think the fact people challenging to judo fights in the street would bother me.

I liked it a whole lot. Definitely worth owning in my opinion. I had seen it at the Philadelphia Film Festival, so I pre-ordered the DVD the second it was up. I'll have to look to see which company the release is from, but I'm fairly certain it's a HK disc.

[One Armed Boxer]

Been debating on if I should pick this movie up. I've read some very mixed reviews on it but now that the movie has been out for a few years, does anyone have any new opinions on it? Grew to love it? Recommend buy/pass? I'm not really looking for a Gripping story, I just love judo and want to see some awesome judo fights. I don't think the fact people challenging to judo fights in the street would bother me.

I liked it a whole lot. Definitely worth owning in my opinion. I had seen it at the Philadelphia Film Festival, so I pre-ordered the DVD the second it was up.

I second KFB's sentiments, this is my favorite Johnnie To movie, and I think it mixes the blend of story and action perfectly. Gwai LO based on your preferences and your own admission that you're not looking for a gripping story, I'm not sure if this would be exactly what you're looking for. It's an excellent movie, but I would say it's more story driven than action. If any comparison has to be made just to give you a feel of what you'd be in for, I'd say think along the lines of the Japanese flick 'Black Belt'. To himself has of course also stated that it's his homage to the movies of Akira Kurosawa. Either way though, 'Throw Down' is up there as one of HK's best in my opinion.

I'll have to look to see which company the release is from, but I'm fairly certain it's a HK disc.

I have the US Tai Seng release, which should be fine if you can track it down.

[DiP]

I like what To and action director Yuen Bun did with the judo scenes. It's not your typical HK-style fight scenes but more artistic and story-driven. It's a refreshing change as well as entertaining to watch imo.

[masterofoneinchpunch]

As I wrote earlier in the thread (a few years ago) it is one of my favorite films of the 1990s (all genres, all countries). I'm a Johnnie To fan, so I'm biased.

Most important point: if you have seen other films from him and like them (say PTU or The Mission), then there is a bigger chance you will like this. If you like Jean-Pierre Melville then there is a better chance of liking his films .

It is not the easiest film, often To will give information only once (sometimes making rewatching a better experience for his later films) and if you do not remember that particular instance you may miss something important later. Do not go into it thinking of an action film. It is more of a character driven,"gripping" story with the usual Johnnie To touches of unique characters and beautiful direction.

[masterofoneinchpunch]

Tai Seng Rik Meyers, Frank Djeng commentary notes (my comments are in []):

Introduction of himself.
Frank Djeng of Tai Seng is on this as well.
FD: says To references Kurosawa [no kidding]
RM:
FD: song is referencing TV series (TV series played in Hong Kong in 70s).
FD: reminds him of Throne of Blood with use of song.
RM: youth rejects the culture.
FD: [he just ignores this .] Empty board signifies dojo is closing down [not sure of this]
RM: mentions echoes os Johnnie To’s work [which is correct]
RM: Started with Enigmatic Case 1980.
FD: All actors doing their judo stunts.
RM: Aaron Kwok Four Heavenly Kings of Cantopop.
RM/FD: Johnnie To world.
FD: AK always in the light because he knows where he is going; LK: always in the dark because . [I don’t agree with the analogy]
RM: blathering; says that JT too busy making movies to do commentary for this film [like there could not be other reasons not to do this with RM].  He seems to push meeting him a few times translates into more.
FD: states obvious about LK in dark about eyes.
FD: 5 10 15 20 Hand Game: Hong Kong drinking game.
RM: Blake Edwards world mention of Peter Gunn before Pink Panther [don’t]
RM/FD: Hong Kong is never empty. [You see the same in some Japanese horror films]
10m
RM/FD: Neither think this is a mainstream movie.
RM: goes off on JC tangent.
FD: discusses Cherrie Ying . From New York; Mr Chinatown beauty pageant.  Discovered by China Star – Fat Choy Spirit is her first film.
RM: says Johnnie does not speak highly of her from David Bordwell interview.
RM: gets confused.
FD: foreshadowing of shadow/light and them going in three directions at the end.
RM: back on Cherrie Ying not being able to act via interview.  Gets off topic.
FD: mini-bus; no set stops.  Good info.
FD: Louis Koo waring dark clothes, the other two wearing light clothes [does this stand up throughout the film?]
RM: [STOP talking bad about Cherrie]
FD/RM: slightly disagree about Louis Koo’s character (RM: more jerk wanting redemption basically; FD: not wanting redemption).
FD: Brother Savage.
RM: thinks PTU starts Johnnie To’s obsession with whimsical characters.
RM: thinks Boss Savage does not exist in the real world.  Critical acclaim is hot and cold [OK?]
FD: him Aaron Kwok looking for good opponent; here in video games [not just in video games]
RM: going over characters looking for someone to beat them.  [true]
FD: says this is like a martial arts film but it is contemporary [I disagree that matters; this is a martial arts film]
RM: does not understand extreme reaction Louis Koo’s character has to his condition [ARE YOU FREAKIN’ KIDDING ME?; he calls it absurd]
[Sometimes it goes in and out a little for the sound]
22m
Brother Savage hates late;  FD says because of Johnnie To.
RM: goes on Jackie Chan not being late for Rush Hour.
[Note to RM; just because it may seem that you do not know where the plot is going does not mean they are making it up as you go.]
RM: just says Judo is based on Chin-na. [Judo came from Jujitsu; aka check out the movie Sanshiro Sugata]
FD: rumour of Cherrie and Louis Koo having affair. Cocaine in jacket for Cherrie. Still in court case for possession [2004 commentary]
RM: Frank smacking his lips talk;
RM: [agree with him on anti-bootlegging.  Goes over way too long on a commentary.]
[great got FD talking about this; mentions people prevent people from filming movie in Kung Fu Hustle which FD saw in HK]
RM: talk of Jackie Chan’s son in acting; neither know his English name.
FD: talks of script.  Wong Best Screenplay at Golden Horse.
RM: says a lot of cameras were at play.  I need to research this since everything in the scene is cut which does not prevent the use of one camera changing positions.
RM: cause To the Asian Robert Altman [hmmm; argh]
FD: shot on film; why does RM think this is shot on video?
FD: shot in May; released in July.
RM: pinball reference.
RM: thinks intro of Lee Kong character is not realistic.
RM: complaining again that life isn’t that neat.
Did not show up for match for Lee Kong 2 years ago.
FD: mention of Grasshoppers HK group.
RM: “western audiences really don’t get martial arts.” [What a stupid thing to say.]
RM: started in Judo.
[They don’t know the name of air hockey; RM finally gets it]
FD: he becomes less savage (Boss Savage)
RM: once again mentions the believability of it.
46m
FD: audience possibly expecting romance.
RM: makes good point on them finding themselves (though I disagree you have to find yourself before you love someone else).
RM: 3 people who just don’t love themselves [I think this really only fits with Louis Koo’s character]
FD: in a way she represents his Louis Koo past
FD: LK will not sit unless master (sifu) says he can sit. [reminds me of Farewell my Concubine]
RM: name dropping Donnie Yen in story analogous to the scene above.
FD: Sensei has to fight because of dojo.
FD: teaching respect of elders.
RM: thinks To is not as well known in west because he works too much.
RM: making life is empty analogy because streets are empty.
RM: back to video look comments instead of film [God, he is just blathering]
FD: each character has one single purpose [my word would be monomania]
FD: fixing guitar … symbolic of coming back.
FD: I disagree with his interpretation that he AK is teasing LK about blindness.  [It appears to be coincidental.]
1hr
FD: Louis Koo started off in TV, went back to TV series now and then.
RM: this is the third time watching this.
FD: talks about nurses all wearing masks because of SARS.
RM: Avian flu talk.
Both: Out of focus represents eyesight.
FD: Chinese title same as TV series title.
RM: diatribe on HK being materialistic and not about improvement of self.
RM: Bruce Lee talk; HK film based on Japanese and American film found their voice through Bruce Lee [God, this is such an ignorant statement;] Argh he says Louis Koo looks like Toshiro Mifune. [God he just has no filter for his mouth]
RM: he talks about terrible commentaries [hee hee]
FD: mentions Red Beard: like student in Red Beard.
1h 15m
RM: energy of floor of dojo.
RM: people dislike sensitively in film. [Depends; it is not maudlin here]
FD: notes LK is blinking less and less.
RM: he calls the balloon simplistic.  [What the hell?]
RM: filmmaker with something to say is better than with nothing to say.  He states a few platitudes as well.
RM: The Mission considered his masterpiece; film is art of movement [I disagree with this as it is a hybrid art]
FD: talks about Paula Tsui singing song.
RM: talks about Heroes of the East – people comparing each other’s technique.
RM: thought To made A1.