Throw Down (2004)

[DiP]

The movie will get a Bluray release on August 9.

http://www.yesasia.com/global/throw-down-blu-ray-kam-ronson-version-hong-kong-version/1024745599-0-0-0-en/info.html

[OpiumKungFuCracker]

I was gonna be all up on this until I read it was a Kam & Ronson Version....

[Sheng]

Saw this too... actually I'm eagerly anticipating BD's of classic Milkyway (and other) flicks, but the HK Panorama DVD of THROWDOWN was truly of splendid quality. Any upgrade will therefore be minimal...

But there's so much of To & Milkyway that just screams for a Blu Ray transfer... Think THE MISSION, think THE LONGEST NITE, think A HERO NEVER DIES or EXPECT THE UNEXPECTED or THE ODD ONE DIES...

But it's really good to see that some key films from the 80s and 90s do finally make it on BD. And as flawed as some of those discs turn out to be.... I'll guarantee that these will still be the best looking ones for a loooong time to come!!

[DiP]

I was gonna be all up on this until I read it was a Kam & Ronson Version....

Their BDs of recent (1999-present) movies are good enough.

[ShaOW!linDude]

Always wanted to see this. Anyone know if the fights are any good?

[Sheng]

Originally Posted by ShaOW!linDude

Always wanted to see this. Anyone know if the fights are any good?

The fights are kinda cool... I mean, you can tell that Koo & Kwok and basically everybody who's in this picture - except Cherrie Ying of course! - did get some serious judo lessons from the hired instructors. But mind you, this is not really an MA film, its To at his more opaque and philosphical. Actually, the DVD contains a long, subtitled interview where he expounds on the underlying philosophies of THROWDOWN in an illuminating and very enthusiastic manner (well, enthusiastic for a cool, calm & collected cat like him at least).

People who're looking for a straight, clearly communicated storyline culminating in a series of slamming fight scenes should probably look elsewhere. I'd call THROWDOWN a beautifully lensed, but not always emotionally compelling character drama with a truly fantastic lead (Louis Koo). The kind of film that improves tremendously after two or three viewings.

[masterofoneinchpunch]

THROWDOWN is one of my favorite films from the 90s.

capsule review from a few years ago (I have since seen Yesterday Once More):

Throw Down (2004: Hong Kong)

If I had not listened to others and previously watched some of the brilliant oeuvre of Johnnie To then a recent watch of The Executioners (co-directed by Tony Ching Siu-Tung) might have prevented me to delve into other of To's movies. Luckily I knew better and anticipated Throw Down with furious glee.

Released right after Breaking News that same year (neither one was a box office hit, yet his next film Yesterday Once More, which I have not seen, would be a more popular film with the HK audience though is not talked about as much today.) Though this does fit with To's production company Milkyway Image (HK) Ltd. modus operandi of filming popular movies to help fund his personal projects. I tend to prefer to personal features.

Louis Koo Tin-Lok (Election, Rob-B-Hood) stars as Szeto To an enigmatic ex-Judo expert who mysteriously quite competition to drink, gamble and stumble his way through life. He meets two strangers who quickly integrate themselves into his life: one wants to be well known actress or singer and needs a singing gig in his club (Cherrie Ying Choi-Yi: My Left Eye Sees Ghosts), the other is an up-and-coming judo fighter who just wants to fight him (Aaron Kwok: The Storm Riders). Szeto To just wants to gamble.

Like most of To's movies there are superb scenes and idiosyncratic characters which work best when combined. There is the triad member Boss Savage (To regular Eddie Cheung) who mumbles disparaging remarks to his opponents when playing video games, has a nasty streak to people who are late and forgives Szeto for stealing his money over and over again. There is mentally deficient yet loyal Jing (a character very reminiscent to one in Shower) who greats everyone with the same phrase and there is Lee Kong (Tony Leung Ka-fai: Ashes of Time) who is the most proficient expect of Judo that is still upset that he did not get to fight Szeto. A great scene with him is one similar to Red Beard where he dislocates one triad members arm after another.

Oh such a fun film. Made as a homage to Akira Kurosawa's Sanshiro Sugata and Kurosawa in general, it still feels like a To film. It is quirky and quite eccentric but for fans of Johnnie To's more personal films like PTU and The Mission they will find this one of his better movies.

-----------------------------------------------------

For those interested here are notes I took on the extras for my DVD (still haven't gone through the Ric Meyers commentary though):

Throwdown (R0: Tai Seng 2-Disc Set):

Making of Featurette (11m, Cantonese w/English subs)

JT: watched TV drama series "Sanshiro Sugata"

JT: did not want to use wires; wanted to show Judo moves.

JT: having good ethics is most important.

[lots of behind the scene scenes; character analysis]

Louis Koo: Biggest obstacle for his character is his illness, values loyalty, left dojo because of illness.

Cherrie Ying: Like her character Mona: lonely and brought up in a foreign country.

JT: the three main characters would have different understanding of Judo at the ending.

LK: always have hope, motiviation, dreams otherwise no future.

Aaron Kwok: Different goals, always set goals.

Mona: even if others don't believe you can you must believe you can.

JT: most important reason for making film was to tell a story about perseverance.

Interview With Johnnie To (40m Cantonese w/English subs)

Throwdown Exclusive Director Interview

Felt Judo was slowly going away in HK.

Noticed a lot of the recent comedies in HK were not funny.

States society in the 70s was more positive.

Live for today. Must not have pessimistic attitude.

Didn't want to have any villains. Didn't want to pressure the characters.

"Are the film's charactes representative of today's Hong Kong people?"

Louis Koo main character: main theme of film "Live for Today".

Aaron Kwok was someone with enthusiasm in contrast to Louis Koo.

Cherrie Yen's character lives only for her dream. Told Cherrie not to sing well.

Jing (son of Master Cheng): treats life as a game.

"Why did you choose such a stylish way of lighting?"

Only want you to see specific things. Talks about King Hu using lots of smoke to blur things that he did not want you to see. Wants things to be more stable

"Why do you like to use long takes?"

Wants audience to get into the mood.

"Talking about Lo Hoi Pang"

Very good comedian. Liked his looks and age for this character. Was not easy to direct.

Painful to him. "For people like us, who know what film is about, we know that all actors have only a few tricks."

"Talking about Cheung Siu Fai"

Wouldn't let him raise his voice, wanted him to talk about things he knew nothing about. Said every actor performed well including the ones that are not good actors like Calvin Choy. The fastest way to get a new (or bad) actor to perform quickly is to strip away the bad and leave the good.

"Talking about Louis Koo"

His rhythm is too quick. He is a drunk and shouldn't have such quick reactions.

JT: "Pretending is useless." Doesn't like to give actors the complete script.

"The Four Scenes: Four Tables"

JT: "I don't need the audience to understand everything." wanted chaotic feeling.

"The Four Scenes: Casino and Running"

This scene is presenting a romanitic world. Mona and Szeto To see good things.

"The Four Scenes: The Red Balloon"

Perhaps unrelated to film, but wanted to capture the feeling of growing up. Did not want them to utter a single word. Shows "Team Spirit".

"The Four Scenes: The Final Duel"

It is important that Szeto To keeps his promise and his opponent forgives him. The spirit of the film is put in the final scene. Grass field versus city is "primitivism versus modernism".

"Why did you want to pay tribute to Akira Kurosawa?"

remembered seeing Kurosawa's films in late 60s after the riots. Then in 70s saw his films again while working at a TV station. Wasn't until the 80s when he was making films himself that he became impressed with Kurosawa. "I started re-watching these masterpieces as a film director. They were the same films as before, but as I have aged, I began to realize that these are truly masterpieces." Kurosawa was able to put his philosophy into his films and present it. RED BEARD: long scene where Red Beard feeds congee to patient it is how Kurosawa shows generosity of RB, his patience towards his patient. When he was making A HERO NEVER DIES or EXPECT THE UNEXPECTED [he is not official director] or even RUNNING OUT OF TIME 2 wanted to show how people faced situations and happenings. With EXPECT THE UNEXPECTED people always ask him why they all have to die at end? (answer: anything can happen). Anything can happen, it is how you face it. Everything derives from Sanshiro Sugata even though the story is different.

"Are you aware of the similarities with Kurosawaa's SANSHIRO SUGATA?"

Was not aware of the similarities except for the one thing about the shoe. "Fate dictates whether they'll meet again or not."

"Epilogue: Values, box Office, and Film Festivals"

Box Office is not true indicator of the film's value. Biggest indicator is to let people from different cultures be influenced by it.

Edited June 15, 2021 by masterofoneinchpunch

[DiP]

Always wanted to see this. Anyone know if the fights are any good?

Sheng've said everything there is to say about the movie. The story centers on judo practitioners but it's the director's style and the character development that plays the crucial role of everything. There are quite some action set-pieces here and there (very different from what you would expect) but to enjoy them you probably need to learn to appreciate the storytelling, which is something of an acquired taste.

[OpiumKungFuCracker]

Gonna pop this one in the player tonight...

[Travis]

I just saw it last week. It seems people love or hate this film and I am in the group that hates it.

I thought the premise of guys just challenging each other to judo matches in the street was completely stupid

[DiP]

Not a movie for everyone.

[OpiumKungFuCracker]

I just saw it last week. It seems people love or hate this film and I am in the group that hates it.

I thought the premise of guys just challenging each other to judo matches in the street was completely stupid

You didn't like that particular part?? What about the other layers of the movie like direction/character study/ cinematography??

[masterofoneinchpunch]

You didn't like that particular part?? What about the other layers of the movie like direction/character study/ photography??

While I'm quite a Johnnie To fanboy (I think Lucky Encounter is the only To I really don't like), I think Opium makes quite a good point about this movie. I feel that this film is strong in so many areas that even if you don't like a particular point (I have no issue with the Judo fights; it certainly doesn't feel that out-of-place considering much of the MA genre has used this particular scenario) that there are many other particulars that are quite strong.

Hate is a pretty strong word, I think it helps if there are a multitude of reasons behind it.

[Travis]

You didn't like that particular part?? What about the other layers of the movie like direction/character study/ cinematography??

The movie had a few good things going for it but to me the judo challenges were so stupid, it ruined pretty much every thing for me.

I think most people that do judo do it more for sport and competition.

To me, it would be like a college wrestler that just goes around challenging people to wrestling matches in the street. It is a stupid premise and I don't see it happening in real life.

Also, I love Louis Koo but this was the first film of his that I have ever seen that I did not enjoy watching him and his acting.

[DiP]

I think most people that do judo do it more for sport and competition.

To me, it would be like a college wrestler that just goes around challenging people to wrestling matches in the street. It is a stupid premise and I don't see it happening in real life.

You expected wrong things in the movie then. This has nothing to do with realism or authenticity of reality.

[Travis]

I just think the movie is weak and stupid compared to other Johnnie To or Louis Koo films.

I think Johnnie To makes some pretty good movies, but also a lot of movies that just wind up being slow and not entertaining.

Fulltime Killer, Triangle, PTU are some of his better movies.

[masterofoneinchpunch]

If you are going to use words like "weak" and "stupid" explain what is "weak" and "stupid".

Some very knowledgable film critics/professors like David Bordwell think this is one of To's best. Heck I think this is one of To's best films and I'm a huge fan of To. To has done some bad films but I feel most of them are early in his career. His personal projects like PTU, The Mission and Throw Down I think are excellent because of the pace (sometimes years are spent on these films), personal vision, visual choreography, sometimes difficult narratives etc...

[Travis]

In one of my previous posts, I explained what I thought is stupid is the storyline of having judo guys just going around challenging others to judo matches in the streets. I thought that was totally stupid. I think most people that do judo do it for sport or even just exercise. To me, it would be like a guy that is a college wrestler just going around challenging others to wrestle in the street. I think that is moronic.

I like many of Johnnie To's films, this was not one of them though and is maybe the worst film I have seen of his. It was surely Louis Koo's worst film that I have seen. I have seen around 15-20 Louis Koo films now, and he is the main reason I watched this. I thought I would also like it since it is a Johnnie To film. I completely hated, and so it the general audience in HK from what I hear.

[masterofoneinchpunch]

I saw that post, but I thought you might have had more reasons beyond the unrealistic nature of it which really didn't bother me much since most wuxia, heroic bloodshed and kung fu films are of the unrealistic nature. But then again To has never really been one for complete realism (rare is the auteur filmmaker actually).

I thought this was one of Koo's better performances especially underplaying his character who is depressed and passive because of his condition (which there are hints throughout the film through at first we lack the narrative to put this together).

There is no way this is worse than Wu Yen or Lucky Encounter.

Johnnie To's personal projects like PTU and The Mission tend not to make as much money and are not as popular as his romantic comedies in Hong Kong. That does not mean I would rather see Love on a Diet (I actually like this film, just using it as an example) than Exiled.

Now this is also one of To's favorite films he has done.

[Travis]

I have The Mission on DVD but it has been sitting around my place for several years and I have not watched it.

[masterofoneinchpunch]

I have The Mission on DVD but it has been sitting around my place for several years and I have not watched it.

I like/love it, but it is also one that can be hated/loved. Interesting that you liked PTU, I know several who hated that but then loved Exiled and Election . Some consider The Mission To's Sonatine.

To's weirdest output is his earliest films where they go all over the place in tone, storylines, quality etc... But they are an adventure.

[Travis]

I think I watched the first few minutes of it one time but I think the DVD wasn't that good of quality so I quit. I don't think I have a pirated version of it either.

I liked PTU, even though it was a pretty slow moving film until the gun fight at the end. I have the original Chinese DVD of it, but I kind of wish I had the Dragon Dynasty release of it because they probably have some good features and commentary on it. I really love Bey Logan's commentaries.

[Takuma]

Throwdown is actually my favorite of all Johnnie To films I've seen (seen 17, including collaborate efforts). Absolutely love the video game esque atmosphere (could be a Sega game or something) and that everyone in the film is using judo. Audio-visually fantastic, too.

This trailer perfectly captures what the film is all about.

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(one of the coolest trailers ever, btw)

My second fav To fim would probably be Sparrow, which in certain sense is similar to Throwdown. No action, but the loving approach and atmosphere...

The French dvd of The Mission is pretty good, although not as great as some people make it out to be. No Eng subs of course. Never saw the HK dvd as I had heard it sucks. The film is great, of course.

[ShaOW!linDude]

Don't know that I've ever watched a Johnnie To film but I'd watch that!

[DiP]

I just think the movie is weak and stupid compared to other Johnnie To or Louis Koo films. I think Johnnie To makes some pretty good movies, but also a lot of movies that just wind up being slow and not entertaining.

Fulltime Killer, Triangle, PTU are some of his better movies.

I find the first paragraph very ironic, in that you say you like Johnnie To but ditch alot of his movies due to slow pacing and low entertainment value. Concluding the premise of Throw Down bringing up realism and what you can relate to is irrelevant and completely missing the point of the movie.

Just wondering, which movies have you seen?

I don't know, maybe auteur filmmaking just ain't your cup of tea. If you watch Johnnie To movies expecting simple story layers, less complex narritive, realism and lots of action scenes then he's is not someone to look out for.