Member DiP Posted July 17, 2011 Member Share Posted July 17, 2011 Johnnie To and Wong Kar-Wai are great examples and so are John Woo, Ringo Lam and Tsui Hark. Anyone who can list more HK directors like them whose work have more or less resemblance to noir films? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member luckystars Posted July 17, 2011 Member Share Posted July 17, 2011 Alfred Cheung Kin-Ting for Yuen Biao's 'On The Run' 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member masterofoneinchpunch Posted July 18, 2011 Member Share Posted July 18, 2011 I'm interested in what you feel is and what constitutes film noir. The reason asking is that many people go by different definitions on what they consider film noir, neo-noir etc... Many of Hong Kong's crime films feel like a mixture of film noir and neo-noir (the Jean Pierre Melville influence is quite huge especially with To and Woo). Some of Wong Kar-wai could be considered noir (At Tears Go By, Fallen Angels) but most of his oeuvre might have bits and pieces of noir but I wouldn't consider wholly noir. Personally I believe there has to be a psychological edge to it besides (film noir doesn't have to have all of the following, but it helps ) the German Expressionistic influence, pessimism, possible literary hardboiled influence, VO, melodramatic content and who knows what else. I would personally think Infernal Affairs trilogy is neo-noir. The Longest Nite (1998: Patrick Yau Tat-Chi though Johnnie To took over filming on this one) is one of my favorite HK neo-noir. Not only do you have the pessimism but the photography on this is awesome and its use of lighting is very film noir influenced. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member DiP Posted July 19, 2011 Author Member Share Posted July 19, 2011 In short, I would divide film noir in two categories which are traditional (30s-50s) and modern noir (60s-present). Aside from different elements, themes and general film technology used in each, I don't consider film noir and neo-noir that much far from each other in definition since both depend on stylish narrating through peculiar direction and attractive cinematography/lighting. You're absolutely right about the latter movies you mentioned though, they belong in the neo-noir category. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member masterofoneinchpunch Posted July 19, 2011 Member Share Posted July 19, 2011 In short, I would divide film noir in two categories which are traditional (30s-50s) and modern noir (60s-present). Aside from different elements, themes and general film technology used in each, I don't consider film noir and neo-noir that much far from each other in definition since both depend on stylish narrating through peculiar direction and attractive cinematography/lighting. You're absolutely right about the latter movies you mentioned though, they belong in the neo-noir category. I tend to use the more strict definition of film noir for its beginnings (The Maltese Falcon: Huston) some arguments have Double Indemnity as the first, but while I love that film I don't agree before the Falcon remake feels soooooooo noir . Many of the 30s films tend to be gangster films and not noir (or in some cases pre-noir) since you don't have the narration, direction, psychological attitudes though you do have some great films (I'm a Cagney fan). I won't get into it hear but there are other arguments on noir as well including b&w vs. color, country of origin etc... For those interested in Film Noir there is a great link here: (I don't agree with all there picks, but it is still an interesting list). The reason why I mentioned all of this is because when I have seen lists like this in the past it gets deluged with HK cop and triad films regardless if they have a film noir edge to them or not (of course film noir doesn't have to be detective/cop/criminal film but it helps ; great examples are Ace in the Hole and In a Lonely Place). Trying to think of good examples of directors you have not mentioned: Triangle (2007: Tsui Hark, Ringo Lam, Johnnie To) (sorry had to; I'm thinking Hark was the least noir in this film while Lam had the psychological motivation and To had the unique direction). Great now this question is bugging me. I'm going to have to look over some older DVDs. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member DiP Posted July 20, 2011 Author Member Share Posted July 20, 2011 Yeah, I can see some misrepresentation/confusion of noir by some people so you're definitely on point with your great knowledge of film noir. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Markgway Posted July 21, 2011 Share Posted July 21, 2011 The term film noir has been bastardized to mean anything dark and crime driven. A true neo noir would be something like L.A Confidential. I can't think of any off the top of my head that come from Hong Kong. Crime, yes. Noir, not really. From memory ON THE RUN comes closet (of titles mentioned). FULL CONTACT is neo-noir at heart if not in style. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member masterofoneinchpunch Posted July 21, 2011 Member Share Posted July 21, 2011 I do enjoy FULL CONTACT but I do have a bit trouble thinking of it as noir. Will have to see ON THE RUN. L.A CONFIDENTIAL is quite a good film and is certainly neo-noir, ANGEL HEART is another one I love from Parker (I know not everyone likes this , but the cinematography, hardboiled nature, influence from Mr. Arkadian, psychological issues, doomed hero ...) Looking over a wiki list of neo-noirs, don't quite agree on all of them, of course there are the Melville films like Le Samouraï (one of my favorite films of all time). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member DiP Posted July 23, 2011 Author Member Share Posted July 23, 2011 I can't think of any off the top of my head that come from Hong Kong. Crime, yes. Noir, not really. What about Johnnie To's Sparrow? I see traces of 50s film noir in there. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Markgway Posted July 24, 2011 Share Posted July 24, 2011 What about Johnnie To's Sparrow? I see traces of 50s film noir in there. One of the few To films I haven't seen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member masterofoneinchpunch Posted July 25, 2011 Member Share Posted July 25, 2011 What about Johnnie To's Sparrow? I see traces of 50s film noir in there. I think you can find traces of neo-noir in most of To's work. Especially with his huge influence of French cinema especially Melville. But he also likes Godard, Truffaut and many others as well. To states specifically Umbrellas of Cherbourg as an influence (a musical, quite a good film BTW) for this film. As I state in my review the main influence is French New Wave for this movie not Film Noir though. Here is my 1000+ review on the film: http://hkmdb.com/db/reviews/show_review.mhtml?id=14424 (you may have to log into HKMDB). To go off topic: my least favorite Johnnie To film is Lucky Encounter. I would rather watch The Fun, the Luck and the Tycoon ten times in a row then watch that film again (hmmm maybe I should do a review). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member mark187 Posted July 25, 2011 Member Share Posted July 25, 2011 Patrick Tam's "My Heart is that Eternal Rose" is another example, actually this is a very good thread idea. I am going to be doing an upcoming thesis on HK crime films. Recently, as I'd guess DIP knows, there was a Noir film program screened in Hong Kong with both French noir and about 9 HK noir selections made by Johnnie To. He selected Long Arm of the Law, A Better Tomorrow, City on Fire, On the Run, As Tears Go By, and My Heart is that Eternal Rose, as well as a few others I haven't seen yet... Wong Tin-Lam's "The Wild, Wild Rose", Ann Hui's "The Secret", and Tsui Hark's "Dangerous Encounters: First Kind." If anybody has any suggestions for ideas to cover on this HK crime film thesis, feel free to make suggestions, I need to put together an outline soon. http://twitchfilm.com/news/2011/06/johnnie-to-helps-the-french-paint-hong-kong-noir.php 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member masterofoneinchpunch Posted July 25, 2011 Member Share Posted July 25, 2011 Long Arm of the Law seems more like an influence of Italian post neorealism like Francesco Rosi's Salvatore Giuliano with almost a docudrama feel. The film is quite good, but I also don't quite get the film noir aspect to it. It's more cinema verite. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Cognoscente Posted May 6, 2021 Member Share Posted May 6, 2021 On 7/25/2011 at 6:33 AM, mark187 said: Patrick Tam's "My Heart is that Eternal Rose" is another example, actually this is a very good thread idea. Patrick Tam's Love Massacre is worth checking out. It reminds me of Audition. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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