Just watched Mishima: A Life in Four Chapters..How about a discussion?

[waywardsage]

So I just finished the film: Mishima: A Life in Four Chapters. It was pretty confusing. But after some reading online I think I understand it further. Mishima's suicide is thought of as a "gay love affair gone wrong." Which doesn't seem to make sense to me.

Does Mishima's death mark the true end to the samurai idea's? Was he even true to them? What does anyone else think he was ultimately trying to say with his seppeku?

[masterofoneinchpunch]

So I just finished the film: Mishima: A Life in Four Chapters. It was pretty confusing. But after some reading online I think I understand it further. Mishima's suicide is thought of as a "gay love affair gone wrong." Which doesn't seem to make sense to me.

Does Mishima's death mark the true end to the samurai idea's? Was he even true to them? What does anyone else think he was ultimately trying to say with his seppeku?

He is such a fascinating character. I think a big part of his ideals are partially because during WWII he faked TB to not have to serve the military. I think he held that internally. So no he was not always true to the samurai's ideas. If you get a chance to watch the extras on the Criterion release of that as well as the audio interview on the Patriotism short release you can see the fascinating he has with seppeku. To him it was the glory way to go.

He also held a fascinating with the male body. He worked out tremendously (though was shy about his leg strength) and did not want to die with a weakened body because of age.

Have you seen Patriotism? If not watch it to help understand his fascinating with seppeku.

I'll have more to say about this tomorrow (as long as I remember ).

[waywardsage]

I intend to watch Patriotism yes. It's on my netflix list. So was he gay? Bi? The film was confusing on that front. I ready on Wikipedia that the family estate really wants to cover up his gay affairs as much as possible.

Someone on Netflix in their review said the scene where he's eating with all his cadets and joking around holds a TON of gay undertones. I didn't get that at all. It was more about comradare to me. Why does any interaction between a group of men seem like it has gay undertones these days? lol

[masterofoneinchpunch]

I intend to watch Patriotism yes. It's on my netflix list. So was he gay? Bi? The film was confusing on that front. I ready on Wikipedia that the family estate really wants to cover up his gay affairs as much as possible.

Someone on Netflix in their review said the scene where he's eating with all his cadets and joking around holds a TON of gay undertones. I didn't get that at all. It was more about comradare to me. Why does any interaction between a group of men seem like it has gay undertones these days? lol

Well technically he was bi (he was married, with kids I believe; at least one of his male lovers was known). I thought the director (Paul Schrader) could have focused more on that aspect of his life, but I think he wanted/needed a certain amount of the stories to pass Mishima's approval.

I'm doing all of this off memory I'll have more info tomorrow.

[BlackLamaFaction]

He was certainly one of the most brilliant post war literary figures. I would highly recommend reading some of his work, his philosophies and ideas are clearly expressed through his writing.

The Sound of Waves

The Temple of the Golden Pavilion

Silk and Insight

After the Banquet

Forbidden Colors which the main character is a gay man who marries a woman is thought to be somewhat autobiographical in nature. Nonetheless, when you examine the way he lived and ultimately died you find the only true consistency is his wonderfully enigmatic character.

[masterofoneinchpunch]

I need to read his works. I've been so interested in cinema that past several years that my reading has suffered a bit.

Biggest question is did you watch the extras on Mishima: A Life in Four Chapters? The Strange Case of Yukio Mishima (55minutes) which tells you quite a bit about his life. But there are so many extras (on the Criterion release) that really tell you quite a bit about his life.

When you netflix Patriotism make sure you watch/listen to the extras. The highlight is the 45 minute audio of Yukio Mishima. Here is the insert essay by Tony Rayns which is worth reading: Patriotism: The Word Made Flesh.

What did you think of Paul Schrader's direction? Do you feel that given the subject he directed with too much of a masculine tone. I know that Mishima's widow would not have approved as you see from this quote from Kevin Jackson's essay Pen and Sword:

Mishima’s family fought hard to keep Schrader away from the homosexual aspects of the writer’s life and denied him the right to incorporate scenes from one of Mishima’s more overtly gay works, Forbidden Colors.

I think the only question I did not answer in previous posts was "Does Mishima's death mark the true end to the samurai idea's?". Personally I do not think so since the influence of "samurai idea's" will be around as long as the books (like Hagakure) and cinema of the ideals. Of course, what exactly is "true"?

Of course it could easily be argued that the Meiji Restoration destroyed this ideal .

[waywardsage]

Mishima was the last modern japanese person to commit Seppuku, (That i'm aware of.) So it sort of book marks the end of Samurai inflenced Japan. I mean, there are still films, anime, manga...etc.

Mishima seemed to take bushido to it's extreme. It's interesting that he turned out bi. The film gives hints at it, but doesn't explain it very well.

[masterofoneinchpunch]

Mishima was the last modern japanese person to commit Seppuku, (That i'm aware of.) So it sort of book marks the end of Samurai inflenced Japan. I mean, there are still films, anime, manga...etc.

Mishima seemed to take bushido to it's extreme. It's interesting that he turned out bi. The film gives hints at it, but doesn't explain it very well.

There have been a few others who have also done this after Mishima including Isao Inokuma in 2001 (though from the articles I have read I have no idea if he had a second).

I'm not sure an end of ritual suicide means the end of Samurai influence. I mentioned earlier on why Mishima sometimes did not always meet the ideal of Samurainess (though defining this might be a choir).