Guest gorlank Posted May 23, 2005 Share Posted May 23, 2005 Haven't see the third one yet, but local tv showed Clones yesterday and I watched the first hour. I had seen it in the theaters and thought it wasn't half bad but seeing it again, it highlighted how mediocre the film was. The acting by Christiansen in particular is horrifyingly bad. He comes off as a whining little shite who is so obnoxious it's a wonder that the all wise Yoda and mighty Mace Windu don't lop off his head at their first whiff of the Chosen one. The thing that let me down the most was the exposing of the Jedi not as powerful demi god type guardians but as nothing more than guys with shiny swords. Guiness' Kenobi was so noble and had such presence, I was awed by the idea of an entire order of these noble warriors. Instead the Jedi are exposed as a bunch of bumbling fools with a few parlor tricks to their resume. Almighty Yoda can't even sense the presence of a Sith Lord right in front of him?? Anakin is such a little jerk, yet no one can sense the evil in him? The droid army is nothing but a bunch of stickfigure tinker toys who couldn't scare a fly. The Clones are moronic and overblown. The legends we bought into so readily in Star Wars were a sham, that Lucas' godawful scripts gleefully tore down and that's the shame of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest kungfusamurai Posted May 23, 2005 Share Posted May 23, 2005 C3P0's memory was ordered wiped at the end of the film remember? Even so, if it took 20 years for them to build the Death Star, C3P0 or even R2D2 doing one of his downloads would have learned about it during that time. Heck, Han Solo, who was an outlaw living on the outside of the law probably would have heard about it even sooner. Tarkin at the end of Ep 3 looked old. Assuming he was in his 50's or 60's at the time of Ep 4, he should have looked way younger, and not so skeletal like Peter Cushing did. Plus, why didn't they feature him at all in Ep 3 if he was already part of the story at that point, and an important character in Ep 4? As for the ships, I meant they suddenly looked like they did in Ep.4. Throughout most of Ep.3 you saw the pre-cursors to the tie fighters and the imperial cruisers. But by the end of the film, where they are seen watching the building of the Death Star, the ships look fully developed, like they were all upgraded overnight. Personally, I think Vader should have been born at the end of Ep 2. Then Episode 3 could have been full of a whole lot of stuff we wouldn't have been expecting because it would be nice to find out what happens during that 20 years or so between the birth of Leia and Luke and the beginning of Ep 4. Unless Lucas is planning a Star Wars 3 1/2? Gorlank - I hear ya about Yoda not feeling Sidious (is that how his name is spelt?). With all that dark power wouldn't he have been oozing enough Dark Side that Yoda would smell him a mile away? Christensen was an improvement over the terrible Jake Lloyd, but not much. The mystique of the Jedi and the force seemed to disappear when they unfortunately explained it all away to having a special micro-organism in one's body. I liked it better when it was all metaphysical and sh*t. Lucas really should have let experienced writers and experienced directors make the movie, and used the CGI only as icing on the cake, rather than it being the cake itself. KFS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest gorlank Posted May 23, 2005 Share Posted May 23, 2005 Agree, kungfusamurai, that midi-chlorians shite was so trite and clinical that it took away all the mystique/magic of the Force. I did absolutely love Darth Maul though, he almost made the first movie palatable. I didn't think it was too sporting for the two Jedi to double team Maul. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest godzillakungfu Posted May 23, 2005 Share Posted May 23, 2005 DBZ reference. When I heard that crap I was hushed in the theater. Here are my problems. Echoing Li on some. 1) Noooooooooooooooooooooooo11 Stupid as hell. He almost killed her if not for Obi why would he be upset? 2) Time scale. One second the princess' stomach is flat and boom it is 9 months later. Everything felt like it happened in three days a week at the most. 3) Not dark enough. I'm sorry all those people riding Lucas' nuts said how dark it was. Where? The Jedi Academy was dark and the Jedi's dying in battle was sad. Yet, nothing else was dark. More Jedi's died on screen in AOTC then in ROTS. Remember most death happened off screen or were implied. 4) The writing. If it wasn't for Palpatines line this whole movie would be crap. The exchanges between him and Anakin made me forget Hayden's bad acting. It was so well done I could see the logic of going to the darkside. The main thing that ruined it for me was the stupid medi whatever. Leave this out and the exchanges would have been perfect. The problem is stuff like Anakin you are breaking my heart. Was the polar opposite and the norm. 5) C3PO and R2D2. WTF? As stupid as they are I love those robots. I'm waiting for the alleged deleted scenes to come out and wait for a super edit of all 3. Someone will do it and then I will be happy. I remember when the Phantom Edit surfaced. Lucas was mad that somone would dare to tamper with his work. All I could think was you hypocrite what about you. I read an interview where he said he changes the movies because technology wasn't were it needed to be to paint his vison of these movies. Really, well I wish he went back in time. If he didn't have the money and tech these movies would've been awesome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest limubai2000 Posted May 23, 2005 Share Posted May 23, 2005 The thing that let me down the most was the exposing of the Jedi not as powerful demi god type guardians but as nothing more than guys with shiny swords. Guiness' Kenobi was so noble and had such presence, I was awed by the idea of an entire order of these noble warriors. Instead the Jedi are exposed as a bunch of bumbling fools with a few parlor tricks to their resume I totally agree. Obi Wan in ANH had such a mythic quality and it was totally destroyed in Ep1 with the midicholrian crap. I think this single thing hurts the most. Almighty Yoda can't even sense the presence of a Sith Lord right in front of him?? Anakin is such a little jerk, yet no one can sense the evil in him? Of course not. In books it is discussed that the Sith developed the ability to conceal their darkside because the Jedi hunted them to the point of extinction. Not to mention the Sith kept having civil wars amongst themselves. Supposedly that is why there are only supposed to be 2 or 3 Sith at any one time. This is supported in the films becuase you don't see Vader and the Emporer going around trying to recruit/train more Sith minions. Anakin had not yet fallen to the darkside until Ep 3, hence they could not have detected him being evil. Many many hints were dropped in 2 and 3 that they knew Anakin was conflicted and not embracing the Jedi ideals. Yoda and Mace both express their concern about this in Ep 3. Even so, if it took 20 years for them to build the Death Star, C3P0 or even R2D2 doing one of his downloads would have learned about it during that time. Heck, Han Solo, who was an outlaw living on the outside of the law probably would have heard about it even sooner. I'm gonna give them this one cuz it could well have been a military secret, I don't think the droid carrier that they rescued Palpatine from in the beginning (where R2 got his download) would have known about the Death Star being built. As for the ships, I meant they suddenly looked like they did in Ep.4. Throughout most of Ep.3 you saw the pre-cursors to the tie fighters and the imperial cruisers. But by the end of the film, where they are seen watching the building of the Death Star, the ships look fully developed, like they were all upgraded overnight. Again here I agree, no sense of time-scale. Read later for my thoughts on Clone Wars cartoon though. Personally, I think Vader should have been born at the end of Ep 2. I agree, might have been cooler to have him as Vader whacking the Jedi's off, we would have been much more in awe of his power. What happens in Ep 3 sorta takes away from his myth. The whole thing with the droid army being wimps makes sense on many levels. Palpatine's point was to put the Republic in turmoil, it really didn't matter if the droids won or not because he would take over either way. It was more important to breed fear and move attention from his activities until he could be defacto dictator. If you see the Clone Wars cartoon you will also see what badasses that the clone troopers can be. ** Clone Wars cartoon ** I watched Ep 1 last night of this series (I'm DLing it to catch up). I loved it. Right from the beginning I think these guys have the feeling right. Yoda's monologue sets the mood perfectly and they have the epic feel right. In first episode we don't spend tons of time with the main characters instead focusng on some Arc Clone Troopers. The bulk of the story is told without dialogue and it works quite well. This proves that you can show without telling and what is left out can be more important that what you put it. I've got the first 10 episodes and I hope this series stays as good as the episode. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest kungfusamurai Posted May 23, 2005 Share Posted May 23, 2005 Agree, kungfusamurai, that midi-chlorians shite was so trite and clinical that it took away all the mystique/magic of the Force. For a second there, I thought I was watching an episode of Star Trek (no offense - I love the show). I was waiting for them to beam up Jake Lloyd after analyzing his blood. cooler to have him as Vader whacking the Jedi's off Then you could really call him a wanker! What happens in Ep 3 sorta takes away from his myth. Yeah. You have him coming off the operating table basically doing the Principal Skinner 'noooooooooooo!!!' when he finds out Padme died. I didn't realize James Earl Jones could sound like a wuss. KFS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest kungfusamurai Posted May 23, 2005 Share Posted May 23, 2005 5) C3PO and R2D2. WTF? As stupid as they are I love those robots. Yeah, how come R2D2 can fly, kicks @ss and sh*t in this one, and he can't do half of that stuff in Ep 4->6 except get fried and go 'waaaaooooohhh!'. Did he regress? KFS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Daisho2004 Posted May 27, 2005 Share Posted May 27, 2005 I finally got to see this movie yesterday and being a big Star Wars fan I really liked this movie even with its flaws, to me The Empire Strikes Back is still the best one yet. The only problem that really gets to me is that this movie is only about 20yrs, before the Original Star Wars characters take there place in the force as we can say. But Obi-Wan's character is like in his 60's or 70's he really should only be about his mid 50's as the same with Darth Vader when we see the Spirited image at the end of Return of the Jedi he is about 60yrs old also he should only be in his 40's has anyone else noticed this? That really bothers me. As far as the Cartoon of the Clone Wars it really fills in some of the Gaps I think that series is Great. But in this movie General Grieves character is really like a wuss, in the Clone Wars he kicks a lot of Jedi Ass, even though he was hurt by Mace Windu he should still have had a better fight with Obi-Wan then what he had. I was very disappointed with that. Daisho2004 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest kungfusamurai Posted May 27, 2005 Share Posted May 27, 2005 Sorry for hijacking the thread, I was wondering if someone could clear this question up: Did George Lucas pick the name 'Luke' for his hero because it's an abbreviation of his last name? George Skywalker certainly wouldn't have worked. It just seems odd that pretty much everyone has an exotic or uncommon sounding name, like Han, Anakin and Leia, while George's protagonist has such a plain name. Or is it a biblical reference? KFS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest limubai2000 Posted May 30, 2005 Share Posted May 30, 2005 There are some continuity problems but at least they are small minor ones. The age one I hadn't really thought of but now that you mention it, it seems logical. Lucas wrote piles of treatments and drafts before he settled on what we now know as Star Wars. One title was "Adventures of the Starkiller", another was "Adventures of Luke Starkiller, from the Journal of the Whills". The Jedi's were also called Jedi Bendu at one point and the force was called Ashla. Much of the early drafts of the film were built around Akira Kurosawa's "Hidden Fortress". The first draft bears little resemblence to Ep 4 as we know it. Luke was a general with his lasersword who was trying to rescue the princess who is in fact a living goddess. There is some great reading here on the Jedi Bendu script site - www.starwarz.com/starkiller/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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