Star Wars Episode 3...saw it....

[KyFi]

(I don't think there's any spoilers here, as I'm assuming people are familiar with the general story.)

OK, I was extremely fortunate to have a friend with an extra ticket to the charity primiere of the new Star Wars in Boston last night, and I was quite impressed. Overall, I thought it was "Lord of the Rings" quality---easily better than the other two prequels, and landing solidly in the top 3 of the series, IMO. VERY dark---you gotta figure for Annakin/Vader to end up as the embodiment of evil, he had to do some incredibly awful things---and in this one he indeed does. Very few clunker moments compared to the last two, great action, pacing, and I found myself MUCH more emotionally engaged in this one than the last two. You could really feel the horror and anguish that both Obi-wan and Padme felt to see their close companion turn to the dark side. It was a bit odd watching this, pretty much knowing what had to happen to every character, but Lucas did a VERY good job of making all the transitions smooth, logical and believable, and tying up all the ends in a satisfying manner.

I don't want to overhype it, and it's not without some minor flaws, but IMO, Lucas redeemed himself with this one, and I will be psyched to see it again when it opens.

[Guest limubai2000]

Is it true what I heard about the first 15 minutes "kicking it old school style"??

I'm seeing it Monday/Tuesday at a press/preview screening.

[KyFi]

The first 15 minutes is a great action sequence of Obi-wan and Annakin rescuing the kidnapped Palpatine from Dooku and General Greivous (great new villain) on their ship in space. I'm not sure I'd describe it completely as old-school, as the effects and images are really high quality prequel-level, but the lightsaber battle, with all human actors, doesn't rely too much on CGI---very satisfying. What I would say really IS old-school in this movie is the Emperor---Maybe even more so than in ROTJ, he's just dripping and exuding evil---and he's at the height of his powers. McDiarmid does a really great job through the whole movie.

Like I said, I can't exactly put my finger on it, but the big difference for me with this one is that I felt emotionally engaged with the characters in a way that I didn't too much with the last two movies, and that made all the effects and action sequences that much more exciting.

Have a good time, limubai, and let us know what you think!

[Guest teako170]

I've heard nothing but positive comments about this chapter so I eagerly await to see it. I agree KyFi that Lucas will finally be vindicated if this film succeeds because those last 2 SW's were, hmm ... how shall I say? -- whack!

Of course, many forget that Phantom Menace did upwards of ONE BILLION DOLLARS (US) in global receipts. Even Clone Wars brought in a very respectable US $648.3M worldwide. The fans may not have cared for it but Lucas did laugh himself all the way to the bank by pocketing 90% of that revenue (not to mention all those royalties from other merchandise).

In any event, I love all the Star Wars hype of recent. It makes me feel as if its 1977 and I'm 12-years-old once again.

[KyFi]

"It makes me feel as if its 1977 and I'm 12-years-old once again. "

Yep, I was 9 that summer. I feel kind of bad for kids today, because with the media/merchandising/hype machine, I think they miss a lot of the magic. Seeing that as a kid in 1977 was an experience that I don't think could really be duplicated today. There was no media saturation, no advance hype---there were no toys in the store (even a few months after the movie), no video games, and there was no home video release 6 months down the road. It was such a powerful, mysterious, reverent experience to see that movie in the theater at that age. A simpler time!

[Guest limubai2000]

A good point KyFi.

Probably the most powerful memory I have from my childhood is sitting in the Cine Capri in Phoenix, AZ and seeing that Star Destoryer fly through the screen.

Low and behold I walk in Kmart a few weeks ago and do my normal "I didn't have cool toys like this when I was young" walk through the toy isle, and half the friggin movie is ruined!

I tell ya they just did it different in our days.

On that same trip I did score the Darth Vader vs Obi Wan Kenobi Galactic Heroes action figures though! They now sit on top of my monitor, old Ben and Vader.

[Guest teako170]

"Darth Vader vs Obi Wan Kenobi Galactic Heroes action figures"

I'll never forget all those action figures I bought after the first Star Wars film. Wish I still had them. Remember the toy light saber? Basically a flashlight with a long plastic tube attached to it. We did some serious damage to those things.

I do, however, still have the original double-LP Star Wars album released by 20th Century Records. The cover has some wear but the records are still fairly mint. Too bad I haven't had a turntable in years

[Guest gorlank]

Glad to hear that it's a good flick. The Phantom Menace was such a godawful letdown, I had little hope for the rest of the series. Clone was a bit above mediocre so there has been progress made. I'm waiting anxiously to see the new one.

[Guest limubai2000]

forbes.com/business/2005/05/12/cx_ah_0512starwars.html

Forbes link to how much George is worth, something like $20 Billion. They breakdown each segement of the "Empire" but leave out ILM and Skywalker Sound which I know made cash for him too.

[Guest godzillakungfu]

Can't wait to see the movie myself.

IMO the trilogy sucks. It took him 2 movies to get it right so it won't redeem him in my eyes. He just finally decided to breakdown and listen to his fans.

[Guest limubai2000]

From what I've been reading many of us may look upon the first 2 in a different light when we see the final chapter. But that still doesn't change the fact that they were basically political "thrillers" set in outer space, whereas the originals were space opera.

I hate when I do this next thing but maybe teako does this too...

I hate it when I watch a film and then I figure out how to improve it. I do it quite often these days as I find most Hollywood fare lame. I was quite surprised to find myself walking out of Phantom Menace with a puzzled look on my face and wondering how the hell I could have made a better movie. I for one felt the first film lacked an emotional punch, I particularly find the Queen Amidala line "Our people are dying" annoying during the takeover of Naboo. Lemme see here, I didn't see many people dying (ok a few odd soldiers but no civilians), I didn't see concentration camps, I didn't see people herded onto transports like something out of a WW2 movie. George needed to show us something, anything to get us hooked into the Naboo-ians plight, he didn't. And we didn't care.

teak?

[Guest teako170]

Let me answer this with the same reason I didn't care for the film I watched last night. That was Michael Mann's ''Collateral' with Tom Cruise and Jamie Foxx. {spoiler} Cruise's character is completely devoid of emotion. He's like a robot with a job to do so when he dies in the end, I was thinking - yeah, big deal. Why? Not because I don't like Cruise but because his character didn't offer me anything. A good film allows the viewer to become emotionally invested in the picture - instead of an outside party watching the events happen from afar. This is why I've always liked "The Blair Witch Project." There weren't three people lost in those woods, there were four - the viewer being that additional party.

KyFi stated it earlier as does limubai above: "emotionally engaged" and "emotional punch." The first two prequel films lacked this. The audience members were along for a roller coaster ride however, at the end of the ride, we didn't really care. Many a film provide us this 'wild ride' but if we don't leave the theater with some new experience or bond with the characters on screen, the film has failed to do its job. I've always considered George Lucas a 'storyteller' - not so much a 'filmmaker' - and I was quite surprised for someone who understands this concept, to create such emotionally empty characters.

Queen Amidala line "Our people are dying." Lucas of all people knows: (1) See It, (2) Hear It, (3) Say It. The first has the most impact, the second less, and then the third, the least. If we had "seen" the people dying, it would have left more of an impression than if we had only "heard" the people dying, which in turn still has more impact than just "saying" it. As dialogue alone, this fell completely flat and yes, we did not care. And if the viewer doesn't care, why is he even watching the picture?

[Guest limubai2000]

I agree teako, Collateral for me fell flat but I did like Jamie Lee Foxx in that film.

Queen Amidala line "Our people are dying." Lucas of all people knows: (1) See It, (2) Hear It, (3) Say It. The first has the most impact, the second less, and then the third, the least.

Yes, yes that's what I mean, I just didn't know how to word it. In writing I've read it as "show the reader, don't tell them" same thing.

Sort of an epiphany I just had, Lucas was out of touch with mainstream SW fans and thus his first two films were emotionally disconnected, because he is/was. The bad reviews probably pissed him off slightly (particularly the Jar-jar stuff I'd imagine) and he probably read one to many bad reviews slamming the dialogue and lack of emotion. Well now being all annoyed or pissed off he wrote Ep 3 and wala darkness and emotion a plenty. I'm not sure I buy that he contructed Ep 3 to be this way I think part of it resulted from the bashing he's taken since Ep 1 came out.

[KyFi]

Yes, I think you guys are exactly right, and Limubai, I agree with your take on the Naboo battle being sanitized to the point where you didn't really feel for the people or the gravity of the situation. Upon reflection a few days after seeing it, I think that's what he really got right in this new movie. Annakin's turn from a good person to an emotionally, physically and spiritually twisted monster is not just vaguely suggested or talked about---it's shown graphically, and pretty convincingly, I felt.

And on the subject of KF movies, I think that's why I tend to gravitate towards the more serious movies. I don't think Chang Cheh is the most talented director, but, and especially with a lot of his earlier pics, he usually draws me in emotionally. And similarly, that's why some modern martial arts movie, particularly some of Jackie's 90's movies, are just about unwatchable to me. I can agree that the fight scenes are far above most of Chang Cheh's 70's stuff, but I just don't feel anything for any of the characters, and that makes the action that much less exciting.

Teako, I know this movie tends to polarize people, but I totally agree with you on Blair Witch Project--I was really engaged with those characters and loved that movie. I can definitely overlook a lot of other elements in a movie if that connection with the characters is there.

[Guest godzillakungfu]

I agree the movie may be great. I think my problem is what Teako is doing (No offense) and limubai(no offense) are doing. The original Trilogy was almost stand alone. To me that is the only flaw in ESB. ROTJ had to start from ESB. Yet, you could watch each movie independently.

All you guys hit it on the head. I've been looking for the East Coast Version of the Phantom Edit. I ran acroos a website that summed up my feelings about the flaw in PM. To many meetings. It broke down like 20 some odd meetings between all parties. I laughed so hard.Jedi's go to a meeting, then Amidala hads a meeting, then the Jedi's have another meeting, and the Darth and sidious have a meeting, the jedi council has a meeeting, etc. etc. etc. Second one was better than the first IMO story wise but still, meetings, meetings, and more meetings.

I want it to do, good I'm tired of Titanic sitting at the top. If it is as good as you and Spielberg say I'm happy. Again like I told my star wars fanatic friends, it does not save the new trilogy, nor does it redeem GL. Now if this is good and Indiana Jones 4 rocks then I will say GL is redeemed.

[Guest Megaloman]

(not to mention all those royalties from other merchandise)

is it me, or does anyone else think Lucas making a huge amount of money off a story of people battling an evil Empire that uses slave labor and lack of rights interesting- all those toys selling at Sprawlmart were made in Asia under some questionable regimes and for less than living wages.

it seems to me Lucas has the power to "force" these outlets or manufacturers to do the right thing, but hasn't.

just a thought.

David

[Guest limubai2000]

Lucas already torpedo'd Indy 4, Frank Dararbont had from all indications a wonderful script that Spielberg, Ford and Connerly all loved and it made them commit to do it. Lucas said he had problems with it and is doing a rewrite himself.

Considering Lucas had a writer take a pass at ROTS before it starting shooting tells me that he knows he has lost "it" or at least bowed to fan pressure possibly.

It might be interesting to watch Ep 4 then watch 3 afterwards and skip the first 2 all together with. I do agree it does not totally redeem Lucas or save the trilogy but it will probably make me look at them differently. For me the most powerful moment of all the films is the Ben vs Vader face off in the Death Star. I hope this next film can live up to it.

[edit - add]

From a CNN article about Lucas at Cannes...

Lucas told reporters he was not too concerned by the negative reaction to Episodes I and II of the prequel trilogy.

"We've discovered in the last few years ... that we have two fan bases," he said. "One is over 25 and one is under 25.

"The films that those people (over-25s) don't like, which is the first two, actually are very fanatically adored by the under-25-year-olds."

us.cnn.com/2005/SHOWBIZ/Movies/05/15/cannes.starwars.reut/index.html

[Guest Markgway]

Lucas said he had problems with it and is doing a rewrite himself.

Expect crap dialogue then. I mean, what does the Oscar-nominated screenwriter of The Shawshank Redemption know about writing scripts??? :\

As for Revenge of the Sith, I've only seen two reviews in the UK press, and both slated it. I expect the fanboy type mags will be much kinder.

[Guest godzillakungfu]

That is one of the reasons I can't stand Lucas. This movie will do good and everyone will sing his praises. I've already seen a review were it is his redemption.

Yet, he will question a great writer or director. He is arrogant. This could be the best out of all six and this new trilogy still sucks. So far it looks like Terminator 3. In other words fix and update all the problems and go with what works. Ewoks=Wookies, Luke Vs Vader in front of the emperor= Kenobi vs Anakin in front of the emperor, completed jedi training = complete sith training, obviously this is just conjecture and I could be rwrong. The previews look like a good update but none the less an update of ROTJ.

[Guest mcentepede]

I saw all six movies...I am not a die-hard fan though. This one is easily the best out of the six in terms of action and light-sabre fights, with Obi-Wan surprising me and beating up on everybody...He is easily the strongest Jedi in "Revenge of The Sith". But the acting is horrible, and the editing is not too good, with a couple of cop-out scenes. Empire Strikes Back had better acting I thought and we all cared about the characters, even if the special f/x is less and fewer fights. So IMO the two movies are about equal. But be warned, In Sith, the acting is pretty bad overall, the dialogue is laughable at best. I believe Yoda probably said the most memorable lines in the movie. "Crap, the dialogue in movie was" " Paycheck just, gimme my" " More money, should have asked for I"

[Guest zhunaid]

this movie was a total waste of my time.

its better than phantom menace and clones combined,bt still trashy.lucas really did it this time.make it one time and and crap to gout with.

[Guest godzillakungfu]

It was a nice diversion. Palaptine rocked. That was it in terms of fights no way was it the best. Nothing can top DM vs OWK & QGJ. The fights were an improvment over the face waving in AOTC. The cinematography was beautiful. I was close, it was a reworked ROTJ.

Notice how I'm not commenting on the story. It was his usual job for these three adequate. I've seen Phantom menace 3/4 (I fell aslepp at the theater), AOTC twice, and ROTS once. That will probably be it for the new trilogy.

[Guest kungfusamurai]

These prequels have been weak in the story and acting department, so Episode 3 followed that pattern to the 'T'. The reasons for Anakin getting angry and going over to the dark side were way too contrived. Getting mad over not being a 'master', give me a break. It would have made more sense if we learned Skywalker had some kind of underlying mental illness that allowed him to be so easily manipulated by Palpatine/Darth Sidious.

Sadly, these movies are all about the special effects. And they just look way too fake. The way the Jedi's were moving looked like they were from a video game.

I've never understood why Obi Wan was able to use his force to toss things at the enemy at one moment, and the next he's so helpless he needs to use a gun to finish someone off.

Didn't Padme pregnancy go to term a little too fast? She was barely showing at the beginning of the film, and by the end, she had two fully developed babies.

And finally, that ending where you see Darth Vader overlooking the building of the Death Star. Is that supposed to be General Tarkin who was standing at the window? He looked like he was the same age as in he was in Episode IV, which takes place some 20 years later. The ships also developed instantly. And I thought the Death Star was a fairly recently built ship around the time of Episode IV. If it had been in the works for 20 years, surely Han Solo, Chewbacca, or even C3PO would have known about it.

Overall, the film was a chore to watch. I just wanted to see Darth Vader be 'born'. I hope this drives the final nail in the coffin of the new Star Wars franchise.

I can't believe that all of the critics are giving it 'thumbs up'. I wonder if they were threatened with lawsuits or loss of Fox movie viewing privileges if they didn't give the film a good review. You'd think they were going to add this film to the AFI 100 Best Films list with the hard-ons they all seem to have. I smell the Sith at work...

KFS

[Guest Megaloman]

it's that the first two were so bad that even the slightest improvement makes people happy.

David

[Guest limubai2000]

I think that CGI stunt actors always look bad, even in this film the CGI jedi's look lame-o. I think it's because they don't have the skeletal structure right or something. They just look rubbery in their movements. Count Dokku just looked lame in that jump.

After seeing the film 2 times I like it but I also have problems with it just like the first 2.

The story still lacked alot of emotional punch like 4 or 5 had. It was dark though but not overly so, they could have made it more darker which would have probably worked better.

The turning of Anakin was well done tho and I could really see why he did turn. For all the reasons that he wasn't suppose to which later helped Luke not turn. Someone said the Luke humanized the Jedi which is why he defeated the Emporer and Vader, I would agree with that.

The fear of loss line from Yoda is very inciteful and actually Buddhist in nature. The book I'm reading now about the spirituality of kung fu talks about that as well.

A problem I do have no is that the drama in the series has effectively been killed. We know how everything happened. Lucas didn't do a good enough job to make us feel the connection between the trilogies. If one were to experiment with 2 kids now, 1 seeing them in numerical order vs 1 who does not. I'm willing to bet the later kid will enjoy them more and see the deterioration of the quality.

My suggested order to see them...

4,5,1,2,3,6

Ergo once you learn Vader is Luke's dad, you get the "flashback effect" and still end on a darker note that will carry you into ROTJ. Not to mention for someone that ain't seen them they will wonder if Vader gets saved or not by his own son. Sorta cool that was me thinks, must find someone to test this one someday.

KFS allow to elaborate as someone whose read most of the books on your points... though I do roughly agree with them they can be explained away...

I've never understood why Obi Wan was able to use his force to toss things at the enemy at one moment, and the next he's so helpless he needs to use a gun to finish someone off.

To use the Force in that way requires focus, which a Jedi whose just been hit in a battle might not have, theory supported by the books.

Didn't Padme pregnancy go to term a little too fast? She was barely showing at the beginning of the film, and by the end, she had two fully developed babies.

There was no sense of time-scale in the film, they should have done a "a few months later" during one of the wipes.

And finally, that ending where you see Darth Vader overlooking the building of the Death Star. Is that supposed to be General Tarkin who was standing at the window? He looked like he was the same age as in he was in Episode IV, which takes place some 20 years later.

It was him, but he looked quite a bit younger to me.

The ships also developed instantly. And I thought the Death Star was a fairly recently built ship around the time of Episode IV. If it had been in the works for 20 years, surely Han Solo, Chewbacca, or even C3PO would have known about it.

C3P0's memory was ordered wiped at the end of the film remember?

There was never any mention that the Death Star was a recent construction, ergo it could have been a military secret during it's construction, and may well have required alot of resouces and time to complete. Whilst fighting the Republic/Empire would not have enough to just go build it. It would require time, not to mention it's the first so it's not like they knew how to make one in the first place. Considering how powerful that energy weapon was I'd be going real careful if I was them!

I don't understand what you mean the ships developed instantly?

My big gripes were --

Darth Vader saying NOOOOOOOOOOO, so cliche.

The lava fight was to far over the edge. What I mean is just because they can do something with FX should they? Maybe it doesn't serve the story.

Now they decide to have smoke in space, me don't like that. Also don't like the ship cut in half and crash thing, stupid and stolen from Starship Troopers. At least stay consistent.

The lightsaber fights sucked, I was not nearly as impressed with them as the Maul vs Qui Gon n Obi Wan fight. The similar colored saber blades don't work either. Ep 1 has the best saber fights by far.

Grievous is a cyborg jedi? At least they tried to explain a robot using lightsabers. The canon says that only force sensitive people can learn to use a saber. Han Solo doesn't count cuz he only made a single cut.

My likes -

The space battle at the beginning had the old school feel. It was like they should have just put a sign up - "Warning we will be kicking it old school for the next 10 minutes".

Buzz droids... coool. Great idea he probably swiped from any number of scifi novels.

R2D2 vs the Super Battle Droids, was goood until he did the flying. A bit of a retread of the one in Ep4 but cool.

My improvements <gasp, yes improvements>...

A little more sense of dread of the conflict would have been nice. Make us feel that the conflict is really decaying the innards of the Republic, make more star systems destroyed and more people afriad. Basically create a more desparate stage to tell the story. Same problem was in Ep 1, he didn't make us FEEL the war on Naboo. Telling us that people are dying is not showing it! Showing me evokes emotion, not telling me (same thing with women!).

The lava fight was a tad much, it should have been toned down a little with less effects, big and spectacular does not convey the same sense of emotion as a smaller more intimate fight. Tho he did nail the dialogue in the fight.

The birth felt contrived and the naming was lame-o. Breaking heart causing death... me thinks not. More serious injuries were in order there, hello Lucas!??!?!!?

The end was a nice touch but I would have shown Qui Gon to Yoda and Obi Wan, the typical ghosty force image would have been a nice touch.