Member TibetanWhiteCrane Posted February 11, 2011 Member Share Posted February 11, 2011 oooor, if Bruce had been any good at doing choreo for others than himself, maybe Ji Han Jae would have looked ok! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Markgway Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 That was Lee's one weakness as a choreographer: He spent 95% of his energy making himself look good (often at the expense of his opponents). Compare how weak Hwang In-Shik looks in The Way of the Dragon to his amazing work in The Young Master (and that's Jackie Chan, not even the most generous of choreographers). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member TibetanWhiteCrane Posted February 11, 2011 Member Share Posted February 11, 2011 Just compare WIS in WOTD with him in Hapkido or When Taekwondo Strikes made around the same time! Sammo could make a piece of cardboard look good. Probably the most generous choreographer/star of all time! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member The Dragon Posted February 11, 2011 Member Share Posted February 11, 2011 That is the one area where Bruce didn't "get it" as an AD. The action needs to lookgreat from everyone, from an audience standpoint. Maybe he would have improved over time... Not likely, though. Yuen Woo Ping's AD improved dramatically once he started working with real skilled Martial Artists. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member ShaOW!linDude Posted February 11, 2011 Member Share Posted February 11, 2011 I have to come down on a Bruce Lee completed G.O.D. simply because of the unknown. He only finished half the pagoda fights so there was more of that to come. Then the additional fights leading up to them. There's just a lot of wondering as to what he had in store for the film. I love ETD. I only wish some of the action had been filmed from a little further back. The cropping in some of the fight sequences bothers me just a little. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member makone Posted February 11, 2011 Member Share Posted February 11, 2011 a bruce lee movie with action directed by sammo hung . now that would have been something to see Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member TheFlyingPanda Posted February 11, 2011 Member Share Posted February 11, 2011 Enter The Dragon would have still had it's fame, but Game would have gain appreciation throughout the years. Bruce would have gone back and made changes and probably rehashed the script. In the end its in the realm of the unknown. I will finish Game of Death.... In graphic Novel format that is! It's a hard processes and I am still gathering information and looking for all alleged photos to use for drawing reference. I've tried to as as much as I can with the few minutes I had at seminars with Bruce Lee's student's. I will continue work on it after promoting another comic at this month's comic-con. Enter the Dragon is great, but the 100 man fight scene in GOD would have been fun! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member The Dragon Posted February 11, 2011 Member Share Posted February 11, 2011 I love ETD. I only wish some of the action had been filmed from a little further back. The cropping in some of the fight sequences bothers me just a little. And that's where Lee's genius shined through. The cropping was done on purpose. Lee had some unbelievable foresight at that time... He totally understood what audiences at that time were into; for HK, longer takes, steady movement, multiple techniques and realism... For International audiences, the body movements, and his ability to act physically, through physical expression, called for camera close-ups, and crops, because it wasn't about selling technique-it was about selling himself. That's why there's such a great deal of difference in what he displayed in say, Way of The Dragon, as opposed to the action choreography featured in Enter The Dragon. It worked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Space Posted February 13, 2011 Member Share Posted February 13, 2011 GOTD I think would have been his best to date, just for the sole fact that it would have had the most fights of any of Bruce's movies. The quality of his opponents was also higher overall than in previous movies. I would have loved to have seen Bruce's take on the meaning of the Korean pagoda. Not to mention Wong In Sik and Taky Kimura were going to play a super kicker and praying mantis fighters. Sigh. It was also to many western people, the first time they heard him speaking Cantonese. Also - the 1978 version is a bastardized mess and I hope it ends up in movie hell. The only people that deserves any credit for it are Sammo Hung (for the Greenhouse fight) and John Barry (RIP) Agreed, I've sat through that crap once. I actually enjoyed GOD II more, just because it was so hilariously awful that my friends and I almost peed ourselves. "Bruce" being attacked by the guy in the lion suit, peacock style and Hwang Jang Lee in the Shaolin Technodrome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member mpm74 Posted February 14, 2011 Member Share Posted February 14, 2011 because it wasn't about selling technique-it was about selling himself. That's why there's such a great deal of difference in what he displayed in say, Way of The Dragon, as opposed to the action choreography featured in Enter The Dragon. Never thought of it that way. Makes perfect sense. I should know this, but before Bruce died, did he continue any "filming" of Game of Death after "Enter"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Golden Arm Kid Posted February 14, 2011 Author Member Share Posted February 14, 2011 Never thought of it that way. Makes perfect sense. I should know this, but before Bruce died, did he continue any "filming" of Game of Death after "Enter"? Granted I'm the noobiest person on these boards probably but I'm pretty sure he hadn't done any filming but he had been doing a lot of discussing (in terms of story and plot elements) with Raymond Chow and apparently George Lazenby among others. Bruce never got to resume filming Game of Death but it's funny because he had already written in his personal journal/planner-book that he was to resume filming of Game of Death almost immediately (a couple of months after the dust of ETD cleared iirc). Ironic that "The Game of Death" were the last words he ever wrote. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Killer Meteor Posted April 21, 2015 Member Share Posted April 21, 2015 Just compare WIS in WOTD with him in Hapkido or When Taekwondo Strikes made around the same time! Sammo could make a piece of cardboard look good. Probably the most generous choreographer/star of all time! Bey Logan's book Hong Kong Action Cinema suggests Bruce did it to Whang in his place - he was dissing Chinese kung fu and beating up the stuntmen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member reason108 Posted April 23, 2015 Member Share Posted April 23, 2015 The success of ETD would have been an obstacle to overcome for any future project that Bruce engaged in. He might have ended up with a double-whammy like Kubrick did with 2001 and A Clockwork Orange. But, who knows? But, it certainly was the success of ETD that killed Bruce`s GOD. After his death, all the wrong decisions were made and we know exactly how things turned out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member DragonClaws Posted April 23, 2015 Member Share Posted April 23, 2015 Bey Logan's book Hong Kong Action Cinema suggests Bruce did it to Whang in his place - he was dissing Chinese kung fu and beating up the stuntmen. He was hurting the stuntmen by not holding back and making actual contact with them. Bruce Lee gave him the same treatment during the production of WOTD. The two became friends and Lee as we all know hired him again to appear in Game Of Death. So the dissing of Kung Fu must have been laid to rest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Phantom Dreamer Posted April 24, 2015 Member Share Posted April 24, 2015 And that's where Lee's genius shined through. The cropping was done on purpose. Lee had some unbelievable foresight at that time... He totally understood what audiences at that time were into; for HK, longer takes, steady movement, multiple techniques and realism... For International audiences, the body movements, and his ability to act physically, through physical expression, called for camera close-ups, and crops, because it wasn't about selling technique-it was about selling himself. That's why there's such a great deal of difference in what he displayed in say, Way of The Dragon, as opposed to the action choreography featured in Enter The Dragon. It worked. I thought the excessive cropping in Enter the Dragon was due to Gil Hubbs not understanding how to operate the equipment properly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member DragonClaws Posted April 24, 2015 Member Share Posted April 24, 2015 I thought the excessive cropping in Enter the Dragon was due to Gil Hubbs not understanding how to operate the equipment properly. Gill Hubbs said that the HK film equipment was very old and in poor condition. In America at the time they had a greater choice of cameras, lenses and other film equipment to work with. I don't think he had anything to do with the cropping. Personally Ive never had any problems with the framing of the fight scenes in Enter The Dragon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member JohnnieFreeze Posted April 28, 2015 Member Share Posted April 28, 2015 Bruce did have to bend to politics with the production of ETD, having to share the spotlight a bit with a somewhat popular actor - John Saxon, and having his character fight Bolo instead of Lee's(we were robbed!) In no other Bruce Lee movie do you have to stomach watching another character fight the baddest villain. The other Bruce lee flicks are 100% all about Bruce. ETD wasn't quite that way. Still, you cant top Hollywood's high budget production values. They really know how to bring the added "bells and whistles" and finishing touches to a movie...particularly in terms of what the western audience wants to see. The American audience wants to see "James Dean" type of cool onscreen as opposed to the country bumpkin. When it comes to pure fighting, sure the other movies were all about Bruce as he didn't have to share the spotlight, but other than that, the production values don't match Hollywood's. Now, if Hollywood had produced "Game Of Death", giving Bruce total creative control than in all likelihood G.O.D would've been a better movie, but only under those conditions. Hypothetically speaking, if Bruce had lived and become super,super rich over time, (which would've happened) he could've matched Hollywood's budget and made the better movies, but that would've taken some time (probably years). We wouldn't have see that with G.O.D. (although it still would've been amazing like all Bruce Lee movies). Of course Im just one American speaking his opinion who likes big budget Hollywood movies and actors playing "cool" characters. From what I've heard, most Asians overseas didn't care much for ETD compared to Bruce's other movies. They didn't care for the Hollywood style, or Bruce not being the "star". I truly understand their point. This question will always bring divided answers based on culture, personal taste and whatever else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member DragonClaws Posted April 28, 2015 Member Share Posted April 28, 2015 Bruce did have to bend to politics with the production of ETD, having to share the spotlight a bit with a somewhat popular actor - John Saxon, and having his character fight Bolo instead of Lee's(we were robbed!) In no other Bruce Lee movie do you have to stomach watching another character fight the baddest villain. The other Bruce lee flicks are 100% all about Bruce. ETD wasn't quite that way. Still, you cant top Hollywood's high budget production values. They really know how to bring the added "bells and whistles" and finishing touches to a movie...particularly in terms of what the western audience wants to see. The American audience wants to see "James Dean" type of cool onscreen as opposed to the country bumpkin. When it comes to pure fighting, sure the other movies were all about Bruce as he didn't have to share the spotlight, but other than that, the production values don't match Hollywood's. Now, if Hollywood had produced "Game Of Death", giving Bruce total creative control than in all likelihood G.O.D would've been a better movie, but only under those conditions. Hypothetically speaking, if Bruce had lived and become super,super rich over time, (which would've happened) he could've matched Hollywood's budget and made the better movies, but that would've taken some time (probably years). We wouldn't have see that with G.O.D. (although it still would've been amazing like all Bruce Lee movies). Of course Im just one American speaking his opinion who likes big budget Hollywood movies and actors playing "cool" characters. From what I've heard, most Asians overseas didn't care much for ETD compared to Bruce's other movies. They didn't care for the Hollywood style, or Bruce not being the "star". I truly understand their point. This question will always bring divided answers based on culture, personal taste and whatever else. Warner only gave the film the equivalent of a T.V movie budget. Thy didnt want to gamble losing too much money if the film bombed at the box office. The film turned out OK but imagine if WB had given them more money to play with?. Bruce got to display enough of his skills and had to give Saxon more than just the fight with the mobsters and Tony Liu. Perhaps they should have made Bolo the one who killed Lee's sister?. Then Lee could have fought Bolo & Saxon could have fought Bob Wall at the end. Had Lee lived Bolo would have turned up in Game Of Death. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member JohnnieFreeze Posted April 28, 2015 Member Share Posted April 28, 2015 Warner only gave the film the equivalent of a T.V movie budget. Thy didnt want to gamble losing too much money if the film bombed at the box office. The film turned out OK but imagine if WB had given them more money to play with?. Bruce got to display enough of his skills and had to give Saxon more than just the fight with the mobsters and Tony Liu. Perhaps they should have made Bolo the one who killed Lee sister?. Then Lee's could have fought Bolo & Saxon could have fought Bob Wall at the end. Had Lee lived Bolo would have turned up in Game Of Death. Still a big budget compared to Eastern MA flicks at that time, so we had nothing to compare it to, but I totally agree, and have thought this myself that it wouldve been a better match up to give Saxon's character O'Hara and let Lee fight Bolo (with appropriate storyline changes). Warner didnt want Bob Wall for O'Hara as they didnt think he fit the character but Bruce insisted. Also I believe that Bruce's plan was to remake WOD for the western audience with Bolo as his adversary. Bruce was never going to release the original in the west but after his death, Raymond Chow of course saw it as a good way to cash in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member DragonClaws Posted April 28, 2015 Member Share Posted April 28, 2015 Still a big budget compared to Eastern MA flicks at that time, so we had nothing to compare it to, but I totally agree, and have thought this myself that it wouldve been a better match up to give Saxon's character O'Hara and let Lee fight Bolo (with appropriate storyline changes). Warner didnt want Bob Wall for O'Hara as they didnt think he fit the character but Bruce insisted. Also I believe that Bruce's plan was to remake WOD for the western audience with Bolo as his adversary. Bruce was never going to release the original in the west but after his death, Raymond Chow of course saw it as a good way to cash in. Without a doubt the U.S T.V movie budgets were higher than those of the Asian productions. The film had a more polished look compared to Lee's other HK films. I didn't know that WB didnt plan on using Bob Wall. One of the reasons Lee liked Wall is because he took hits on screen very convincingly. Wall also wasn't afraid of taking a few real hits for the camera. George Tan said that Bruce had plans to release WOTD subtitled around the world. Ive also read he planned to film a sequel filmed in America. Then again Ive heard people say he planned to do a re-make. Hard to say who's right on that one?. There's a lot of stuff related to him that we can only make guesses about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member JohnnieFreeze Posted April 28, 2015 Member Share Posted April 28, 2015 Without a doubt the U.S T.V movie budgets were higher than those of the Asian productions. The film had a more polished look compared to Lee's other HK films. I didn't know that WB didnt plan on using Bob Wall. One of the reasons Lee liked Wall is because he took hits on screen very convincingly. Wall also wasn't afraid of taking a few real hits for the camera. George Tan said that Bruce had plans to release WOTD subtitled around the world. Ive also read he planned to film a sequel filmed in America. Then again Ive heard people say he planned to do a re-make. Hard to say who's right on that one?. There's a lot of stuff related to him that we can only make guesses about. Right..cant say for sure..Ive also read where Burt Ward (Robin from the Batman TV series) said that he and Bruce were great friends. I think in some cases there may have been people who have said whatever to put themselves in the spotlight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member DragonClaws Posted April 28, 2015 Member Share Posted April 28, 2015 Right..cant say for sure..Ive also read where Burt Ward (Robin from the Batman TV series) said that he and Bruce were great friends. I think in some cases there may have been people who have said whatever to put themselves in the spotlight. Good point, some people like to attach themselves to other peoples fame. They will say anything just to get 5-minutes in the spotlight. Especially if their own career is no longer taking off. Burt Ward was a black belt and bragged to the Batman crew that he could take Bruce Lee on. Word got to the Green Hornet set, and Bruce decided to play with him by saying he was gonna fight for real with Ward when they did the crossover episode. Burt Ward then got really nervous as the day of shooting approached. That's the story according to Van Williams on the A&E documentary Immortal Dragon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member JohnnieFreeze Posted April 29, 2015 Member Share Posted April 29, 2015 Good point, some people like to attach themselves to other peoples fame. They will say anything just to get 5-minutes in the spotlight. Especially if their own career is no longer taking off. Burt Ward was a black belt and bragged to the Batman crew that he could take Bruce Lee on. Word got to the Green Hornet set, and Bruce decided to play with him by saying he was gonna fight for real with Ward when they did the crossover episode. Burt Ward then got really nervous as the day of shooting approached. That's the story according to Van Williams on the A&E documentary Immortal Dragon. LOL...yes, exactly...in other words, Burt Ward was no "buddy" of Bruce Lee's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member DragonClaws Posted April 29, 2015 Member Share Posted April 29, 2015 LOL...yes, exactly...in other words, Burt Ward was no "buddy" of Bruce Lee's. I'm not sure if they did become friends after the incident or not?. There's pictures of him with Batman star Adam West off set. I know he experienced a lot of negative reactions from people in Hollywood. He was known to not like the whole Hollywood party/social scene and all back patting that went off in the T.V industry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member NoKUNGFUforYU Posted April 30, 2015 Member Share Posted April 30, 2015 Meh, Bruce liked hanging out with celebs, believe me. I recall that he held a grudge with Ward long after, at least in the more uncensored bio's of the time, right after he died. There was a quote that said Bruce remarked "I hear Burt is pumping gas in the valley!" etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.