Game of Death (hypothetically completed) vs. Enter the Dragon

[Golden Arm Kid]

Let's say hypothetically speaking that Bruce completely finished up Game of Death before doing Enter the Dragon and we actually were gifted with BOTH complete films from Bruce.

We already know the general concepts for which the original GOD was supposed to be based on. We already have quite a bit of samples of Bruce's intended finale to the film.

In the end, if Game of Death had been fully completed, which film would have been better in your opinion: Game of Death or Enter the Dragon?

[ching li]

Good thread! I say a Bruce completed Game of Death, because for starters, it was Bruce's baby, once again he was in control and I know this movie was going to be excellent. Enter the dragon was in my opinion too much about John Saxon, a b-listed actor, with zero martial arts skills and just really looked out of place in that movie. Bruce Lee's character in Enter the dragon, was just a fighting machine, was given no personality, and his name was used because he was at the height of his popularity for the movie to sell. Eventhough Enter the dragon was shot in Hong Kong, it still felt like a western movie and I personally felt Bruce played second fiddle to Saxon; I mean we were given Saxon and Bolo fight scene and not Bruce and Bolo, give me a break. Bruce's version of Game of death would have been off the charts for real.

[Golden Arm Kid]

Good thread! I say a Bruce completed Game of Death, because for starters, it was Bruce's baby, once again he was in control and I know this movie was going to be excellent. Enter the dragon was in my opinion too much about John Saxon, a b-listed actor, with zero martial arts skills and just really looked out of place in that movie. Bruce Lee's character in Enter the dragon, was just a fighting machine, was given no personality, and his name was used because he was at the height of his popularity for the movie to sell. Eventhough Enter the dragon was shot in Hong Kong, it still felt like a western movie and I personally felt Bruce played second fiddle to Saxon; I mean we were given Saxon and Bolo fight scene and not Bruce and Bolo, give me a break. Bruce's version of Game of death would have been off the charts for real.

Exactly my thoughts my friend!

I'm always afraid to tell people that I personally have no idea why everyone claims ETD is Bruce's "best movie". Imo it was a Hollywood-polluted Bruce Lee film. Watered down in everything (plot,characters, everything except Bruce's fight scenes) for Western audiences. Imo something like a "Fist of Fury" completely blows ETD out of the water when you look at the movies as a whole. You hit the nail on the head man.

[ching li]

For sure, friend . Enter the Dragon in my opinion was not Bruce's best film, because I felt eventhough he got top billing, it was not his movie. Bruce lee had it all, excellent on screen fighter, wonderful charsima, and a great actor. But yet I felt he was stifled in Enter the Dragon, for the most part Bruce himself looked bored in the movie. Had he lived I would have been interested to hear his take on Enter the Dragon. But Fist of Fury(chinese connection) you saw how great his acting was and how he was able to just go with it. Not so much in Enter the dragon. His version of Game of Death would have rocked! Only if we could have had the chance to see Bruce's version of Game of Death (sigh)

[Golden Arm Kid]

For sure, friend . Enter the Dragon in my opinion was not Bruce's best film, because I felt eventhough he got top billing, it was not his movie. Bruce lee had it all, excellent on screen fighter, wonderful charsima, and a great actor. But yet I felt he was stifled in Enter the Dragon, for the most part Bruce himself looked bored in the movie. Had he lived I would have been interested to hear his take on Enter the Dragon. But Fist of Fury(chinese connection) you saw how great his acting was and how he was able to just go with it. Not so much in Enter the dragon. His version of Game of Death would have rocked! Only if we could have had the chance to see Bruce's version of Game of Death (sigh)

I honestly would've taken a Bruce completed GOD over Enter the Dragon any day of the week.

I feel like although Bruce had a lot of control over the choreography in ETD he had to water down EVERYTHING down in his usual arsenal for his hollywood breakthrough. A big part of him LETTING that happen was because ETD was the opportunity he'd been waiting for his entire career. Bruce was working towards Hollywood for years and "came through the back door" as Linda said by doing his films in HK. Bruce wasn't going to risk losing the opportunity over creative differences on ONE film. Bruce ate a lot of dirt and sucked it up because this was his key into Hollywood. Had Bruce not have passed he would have been the HOTTEST actor on the market and would have undoubtedly have been the highest paid actor in Hollywood for a long time.

For instance, Bob Wall confirmed that Bruce argued fervently with Robert Clouse to NOT add the Mr. Braithwaite character in (who was Clouse's idea). In the end of course Clouse wanted the character in so he was in.

I almost feel like crying and get all emotional when I think that we COULD have gotten a Bruce completed Game of Death which imo would've been Bruce's BEST movie and one of the best movies of all time. Just based on what was filmed of the centerpiece you could just tell the film was going to be LIGHTYEARS ahead of its time.

I really do feel awful whenever I think about it.

[Guest Markgway]

There's simply no way to answer this question with anything approaching certainty.

I love the Game of Death - Revisisted short film; and feel that this reconstructed 40m represents Bruce Lee's best work. However, beyond that 40 mins, who knows...?

I know Enter the Dragon isn't perfect, but it's seminal, dammit!

Can't have any slagging off John Saxon either ...

[TibetanWhiteCrane]

A finished GOD, no doubt!

[Shawoholic]

Enter the dragon.

[Michael L.]

Enter The Dragon.

Why? Easy... look at what it did: it was a Hollywood martial arts film that put real money into the genre and brought in non-Asian actors to be good guys as well as bad guys. It opened the martial arts genre to the world. No more bad dubs (to make it silly like a Gamera movie) or subtitles (to keep Asian style cinema snooty and arty, like Seven Samurai). It also moved martial arts films into another genre (as it is very James Bond in many ways).

Game of Death would have been a lower budget film that have to make concessions to the prevailing Hong Kong style of lower production values. There is no guarantee that it would have been made "Bruce's way" by the time the final product was released and even if it was, the material I have read that are supposedly his vision are a little heavy handed in their attempts to merge some kind of Ch'an koan-like lesson into cinema. Game of Death might have been Bruce Lee's baby (but then again, so was Circle of Iron) but Enter The Dragon was Bruce Lee's dream: exporting Chinese ideas and action to the world.

Plus, I believe John Saxon was already a black belt when he made Enter The Dragon... and that was frankly back when a black belt meant a little bit more!

[Son Of A Gun]

My opinion.

Enter the Dragon = some really crappy camera angles that didn't show off Bruce's moves.

Game of Death = Although I love it for the look of the set, the costumes, the ideas etc...

It has some pretty dodgy choreography. The very fake/weak opponent Ji Han Jae who, let's face it, could be knocked out by Bruce in a couple of seconds in real life. I don't feel like Bruce's opponents are a challenge for him. You can just tell he's acting like it's hard work to beat them. Know what I mean?

P.S - I don't understand the point of comparing Bruce Lee movies atall. They're all great and they all star Bruce Lee. I don't understand comparing movies period.

[OpiumKungFuCracker]

Yellow tracksuit, nuff said.....

[Omni Dragon]

FIST OF FURY is my favourite but I think the concepts & ideas of THE GAME OF DEATH would have top that.

If TGOD would top FOF then it would certainly top ETD for me.

[Son Of A Gun]

Yellow tracksuit, nuff said.....

Amen.

[sdog2006]

My opinion.

Enter the Dragon = some really crappy camera angles that didn't show off Bruce's moves.

Game of Death = Although I love it for the look of the set, the costumes, the ideas etc...

It has some pretty dodgy choreography. The very fake/weak opponent Ji Han Jae who, let's face it, could be knocked out by Bruce in a couple of seconds in real life. I don't feel like Bruce's opponents are a challenge for him. You can just tell he's acting like it's hard work to beat them. Know what I mean?

P.S - I don't understand the point of comparing Bruce Lee movies atall. They're all great and they all star Bruce Lee. I don't understand comparing movies period.

I agree slightly with this opinion but I'll put my two cents in.

Game of Death: This film would have been very similar to a Hong Kong Longstreet in that Bruce was lecturing the audience in terms of his philosophy. The storyline is cool and has been ripped off since.

However in my opinion the Dan Inosanto fight is the only stand out scene. The choreography in this fight is first class as both guys knew each other so well and both are formidable exponents.

With all respect Ji Han Jae looks like he's struggling throughout and Cheh Yuan is AWFUL. James Tien is slighlt underused but you would expect that in a Bruce Lee movie because the star is light years ahead of anything else on the screen.

The Kareem fight is the real let down. You lose count of the amount of times that Jabbar holds his chin out or traverses into position to take hits. It is so noticable that I think Bruce may have shot these scenes again had he lived.

Despite my criticism I ACTUALLY LOVE GOD. If it's Bruce Lee on a screen I'm in!

Enter the Dragon: Bruce's dream fulfilled is the ultimate martial arts film in my opinion.

He uses wing chun, kung fu, escrima, pole and nunchaku. The "battle with the guards" for me is the best scene he ever filmed and Brandon Lee felt the same. His speed of hand and foot is outrageous and he's working with a plethora of Hong Kong stuntmen so the action is dynamite.

Is the story simple? Sure it is but it's fun and you're there to watch the best martial artist in history strutt his stuff, so who gives a sh*t. The mirrored scene is still atmospheric to this day and the ensemble cast works a treat. A John Saxon movie my ass and calling this film Hollywood is bullsh*t cliche.

This is a terrific piece of cinema and it remains king of the genre to this day!

[Shawoholic]

Enter the dragon is great comic book film with it`s flaws but they are part of it`s charm.Bruce did not convince me as director in WoTD even as some scenes are outstanding.

If 1/3 movies runtime happen in pagoda bruce fighting various opponents to reach top I can bet I would not watched it more than few times.EtD I have seen at least 10...

[QueMuchita]

Game Of Death, Are there any flix that have ripped off the concept not including the Bruce Lee wannabe rip offs

[Golden Arm Kid]

My opinion.

Enter the Dragon = some really crappy camera angles that didn't show off Bruce's moves.

Game of Death = Although I love it for the look of the set, the costumes, the ideas etc...

It has some pretty dodgy choreography. The very fake/weak opponent Ji Han Jae who, let's face it, could be knocked out by Bruce in a couple of seconds in real life. I don't feel like Bruce's opponents are a challenge for him. You can just tell he's acting like it's hard work to beat them. Know what I mean?

P.S - I don't understand the point of comparing Bruce Lee movies atall. They're all great and they all star Bruce Lee. I don't understand comparing movies period.

I understand and agree that we should all enjoy Bruce's movies for what they are. However, I feel like each of his films send a different message, Bruce's character in each film are a different persona of Bruce's own personality, the style overall is different. I feel like it's just good fun to see which were our favorites or which we prefer over another.

I agree about the part of JHJ's character. Still kind of makes me wince when he front kicks either James Tien or Chieh Yuan and looks like he's about to lose his balance and topple over. He didn't really look all that lethal considering you'd expect the enemies to become more deadly as you ascend the pagoda. I think Bruce just had certain "styles" in mind when picking out his pagoda guardians and he wanted to have the best Hapkido guy he could find at the time. Unfortunately that kind of situation doesn't always lead to someone who is camera-savvy.

I just really like the emotion you get out of the footage we have of GOD as opposed to ETD. ETD is a timeless classic don't get me wrong, but I felt like Bruce's character was utterly lifeless and just there to do action sequences and say a few philosophical lines.

Hai Tien of GOD really had a ton of personality even in the fight scenes. His body language and the way he toyed with his opponent in Dan Inosanto just oozes "swagger". He would've been a cocky hipster who could back it up lol. The character to me was a lot more "alive" than Bruce's character in ETD.

[sdog2006]

I understand and agree that we should all enjoy Bruce's movies for what they are. However, I feel like each of his films send a different message, Bruce's character in each film are a different persona of Bruce's own personality, the style overall is different. I feel like it's just good fun to see which were our favorites or which we prefer over another.

I agree about the part of JHJ's character. Still kind of makes me wince when he front kicks either James Tien or Chieh Yuan and looks like he's about to lose his balance and topple over. He didn't really look all that lethal considering you'd expect the enemies to become more deadly as you ascend the pagoda. I think Bruce just had certain "styles" in mind when picking out his pagoda guardians and he wanted to have the best Hapkido guy he could find at the time. Unfortunately that kind of situation doesn't always lead to someone who is camera-savvy.

I just really like the emotion you get out of the footage we have of GOD as opposed to ETD. ETD is a timeless classic don't get me wrong, but I felt like Bruce's character was utterly lifeless and just there to do action sequences and say a few philosophical lines.

Hai Tien of GOD really had a ton of personality even in the fight scenes. His body language and the way he toyed with his opponent in Dan Inosanto just oozes "swagger". He would've been a cocky hipster who could back it up lol. The character to me was a lot more "alive" than Bruce's character in ETD.

I thought your thread was excellent mate and you make a good point there that I "think" I can address.

Hai Tien was an extremely cocky character but I think we need to assume that this was just Bruce Lee being Bruce Lee. The cockiness, the swagger, the philosophy and his sense of humour in G.O.D were all real life traits. Because this was a Concord Production he could do what he wanted and he liked nothing more than being himself, let's face it. The art imitating life in the movie is why it has such a HUGE following.

It's easy to forget that in Enter the Dragon he is playing a Shaolin Monk. He is a very coy and sensitive personality. The scenes when he is crying in front of Old Man and his embarrasment at Roper checking out Tanya are evidence of this. He just happens to be an awesome martial artist. This also fitted in with Hollywood not trusting his acting ability because he didn't need to do too much. This probably suited Bruce because in his opinion; "a motion picture is motion!"

[makone]

enter the dragon . even tho his character was dumbed down he still stole the show and pioneered the martial arts boom

if it was intended to be released how john little said i honestly don`t think god would have been the master piece that everyone imagines., what we have runs over 30 mins ,so two more floors and a gang outside not to mention more people helping bruce , this has got to push the action over the hour mark and that for me is way too long.

i really liked seeing the lost footage but have always thought the feel of the three fights in 78 version was much more intense.

[sdog2006]

enter the dragon . even tho his character was dumbed down he still stole the show and pioneered the martial arts boom

if it was intended to be released how john little said i honestly don`t think god would have been the master piece that everyone imagines., what we have runs over 30 mins ,so two more floors and a gang outside not to mention more people helping bruce , this has got to push the action over the hour mark and that for me is way too long.

i really liked seeing the lost footage but have always thought the feel of the three fights in 78 version was much more intense.

Bruce Lee stole Enter the Dragon. Anyone saying differently is just trying to maximise their distain for Hollywood by talking nonsense.

I think GOD would have been off the hook to be honest. You need to look at it in terms of the movie having a beginning a middle and an end. The build up to the pagoda sequence and the character developemnt would have made those scenes a better experience.

The action in GOD can be over rated because it's classed as "the lost masterpiece" but it's only the Kareem fight that falls flat on it's ass. Also - the 1978 version is a bastardized mess and I hope it ends up in movie hell. The only people that deserves any credit for it are Sammo Hung (for the Greenhouse fight) and John Barry (RIP)

[makone]

Bruce Lee stole Enter the Dragon. Anyone saying differently is just trying to maximise their distain for Hollywood by talking nonsense.

agreed , what i meant by dumbed down is once on the island he has no real acting scenes and he still steals the show.

78 god is crap but i used to watch the 3 bl fights most mornings before school and they have a nostalgic value , that and the tighter editing plus john barrys score make it more accessable to me, but hey thats just my oppinion.

has for his version of god, we`ll never know which of us would be right (i would love to be wrong) but i enjoy the debate:smile:

[Kennedy Il Sung]

GOD, I enjoyed the Bruce footage we see in the 1978 version more than I enjoy ETD as a whole.

The very fake/weak opponent Ji Han Jae who, let's face it, could be knocked out by Bruce in a couple of seconds in real life.

I strongly disagree with this. Maybe he didn't excel at screen fighting but I don't feel Ji Han Jae was either a fake or weak martial artist.

[Golden Arm Kid]

GOD, I enjoyed the Bruce footage we see in the 1978 version more than I enjoy ETD as a whole.

I strongly disagree with this. Maybe he didn't excel at screen fighting but I don't feel Ji Han Jae was either a fake or weak martial artist.

No absolutely. I don't doubt Ji's martial skill at ALL. I think what we're trying to say is that he just wasn't dynamic on camera/screen.

[sdog2006]

No absolutely. I don't doubt Ji's martial skill at ALL. I think what we're trying to say is that he just wasn't dynamic on camera/screen.

Yeah he looks like he's gonna cry in his scenes with Bruce:xd:

You need to remember the guy was 36 years old and he wasn't the most athletic of martial artists and was inexperienced when it came to screen fighting. Lee assumed because Jae had taught Whang In Sik Hapkido that he would be even more formidable.

I once read that Jae stated he would never work with Bruce Lee again. Out of the three fights that were filmed Jae, by far, takes the worst punishment. He gets tossed around, picked up and dropped on his back and rattled with various hand strikes. It couldn't have been very nice lol.

Lee, during filming, had considered replacing him with Angela Mao.

[Golden Arm Kid]

Yeah he looks like he's gonna cry in his scenes with Bruce:xd:

You need to remember the guy was 36 years old and he wasn't the most athletic of martial artists and was inexperienced when it came to screen fighting. Lee assumed because Jae had taught Whang In Sik Hapkido that he would be even more formidable.

I once read that Jae stated he would never work with Bruce Lee again. Out of the three fights that were filmed Jae, by far, takes the worst punishment. He gets tossed around, picked up and dropped on his back and rattled with various hand strikes. It couldn't have been very nice lol.

Lee, during filming, had considered replacing him with Angela Mao.

Wow that's pretty harsh considering him not looking good on camera is likely 100% his own fault. Who knows. If Bruce had lived on maybe he would've scrapped Ji's scenes completely after filming was done and film Angela Mao as the guardian of the Temple of the Dragon instead.