Member OpiumKungFuCracker Posted January 28, 2011 Member Share Posted January 28, 2011 Incredible opening, emotional, raw, violent, everything was running smoothly up until that chick showed up 15 mins in the movie... The light comedy brought this movie to a screeching halt... Maybe I was expecting a 'Killer Constable' serious type shaw but I stopped at the 30 min mark, and not because I didn't like it but to get input from the KFC community on what I should look out for in the remaining time of the movie.. Should I expect more light hearted humor, or is this going to be a bloodshed to the very end.. Don't get me wrong, the fight choreography is amazing, kickass shapes.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Apanblod Posted January 28, 2011 Member Share Posted January 28, 2011 Minor (very very small) spoilers: Some more light hearted comedy ensues if you're just 30 minutes in so far, especially tedious is the "comedic", big toothed side-kick friend of Chen Kuan Tai (whose name I can't remember now). I wanted to turn the movie off after watching a while too because of him mostly. However, once the movie ditches the entire opera-performance crew side-plot the movie gets a lot better. I kind of get the feeling that this movie is divided into three or four different segments though, with each one not fitting that well into the preceding part. If you watch the whole movie I think you'll understand my point. The fighting is, as you say, very good, and I don't think you'll be disappointed by the fights later on. (although you may be disappointed for story-related reasons in a way I was). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member OpiumKungFuCracker Posted January 28, 2011 Author Member Share Posted January 28, 2011 ^ thanks for the input, I have that same problem with Shaolin Mantis 30 mins in the story and humor shifted it into another movie altogether and I didn't like David Chiang's costume in that one, it didn't look badass enough.. But I will finish both movies eventually... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Shawoholic Posted January 28, 2011 Member Share Posted January 28, 2011 This is spoiler but I need to say it anyway;when CKT steps out and Wong Yu enters, things get lot worse from 30 min mark. Not one of my fav Shaws or even in top100:wink: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member peringaten Posted January 28, 2011 Member Share Posted January 28, 2011 No. This is the number 1 KUNG FU film ever made. No other martial arts film comes close to the depth of this one; I can't fathom how Lau Kar Leung slipped a film of this depth out to the masses, it's massively misunderstood. I haven't seen a single accurate write up of it on the internet. Everyone misses what it's really about. It wasn't made for regular punters. It's musicians music; it's LKL's Giant Steps. So many missing the point; people don't deserve this film. It doesn't matter if it's entertaining. This is LKL's breakdown of his kung fu system in film form - it's a testament to practitioners. No other film has characters that are there to represent tenets of martial principles like this. What you think this film might be about possibly doesn't even matter. Once you get it, everything's almost inevitable & pre-planned; you just have to be shown first. Indeed the film even shows you the way. Why do I pretend to be so know-it-all? Well, I've learnt the tiger & crane form under the Lau family, so I guess I got an advantage. I wouldn't realise otherwise to be honest. I get a little more insight into this one everyday. And no I'm not being ott. First two minutes of this clip: is this film's purpose. Greatest kung fu film ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member RogueWarrior Posted January 28, 2011 Member Share Posted January 28, 2011 take note of Gordon Liu'c character at the beginning. He used Snake, Leopard and Dragon. What 2 Hung Ga animals are missing? Great detail many do not catch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Iron Boat Posted January 28, 2011 Member Share Posted January 28, 2011 No. This is the number 1 KUNG FU film ever made. No other martial arts film comes close to the depth of this one; I can't fathom how Lau Kar Leung slipped a film of this depth out to the masses, it's massively misunderstood. I haven't seen a single accurate write up of it on the internet. Everyone misses what it's really about. It wasn't made for regular punters. It's musicians music; it's LKL's Giant Steps. So many missing the point; people don't deserve this film. It doesn't matter if it's entertaining. This is LKL's breakdown of his kung fu system in film form - it's a testament to practitioners. No other film has characters that are there to represent tenets of martial principles like this. What you think this film might be about possibly doesn't even matter. Once you get it, everything's almost inevitable & pre-planned; you just have to be shown first. Indeed the film even shows you the way. Why do I pretend to be so know-it-all? Well, I've learnt the tiger & crane form under the Lau family, so I guess I got an advantage. I wouldn't realise otherwise to be honest. I get a little more insight into this one everyday. And no I'm not being ott. First two minutes of this clip: is this film's purpose. Greatest kung fu film ever.couldnt you say this about most LKL films though, I've always felt his films ditch entertainment value for the sake of annoying viewers with bad comedy and forcing, almost preaching his own principles about kung fu, to me there where so many more entertaining directions he could of taken the characters in this film but it was all ditched for the sake of a hard and soft lesson that took way too much screen time. Even Pai Mei was underdeveloped and underused, the movie should of ended how it began, bloody and violent, like how a classic 70s kung fu movie should. I can respect that LKL wanted to do something different but too many of his films devolve into the same levels of bad comedy and preachyness. As your star you have Gordon Liu, the best screen martial artists in all of Shaws, use him! I wish Cheng Che and Sun Chung got to work with GL more. For the record LKL films remind me of the Friendship finishing move in Mortal Kombat video games, I want to see a decapitation but end up with a hug! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member peringaten Posted January 28, 2011 Member Share Posted January 28, 2011 I actually thought about posting along the lines of "cue Iron Boat to tell you it's downhill from here on in"... It's inevitable that any thread about this film will end up with you and me failing to see eye to eye, maybe your side with a bit of help from Blood Sword... Look we'll just have to beg to differ. This film isn't preachy, it's a tribute to hung gar kuen from one of its great masters, forged entirely from its origins, myths, evolutions, principles, and artistry; with a little light relief to ease it up for those not clued in back in the day. If that's not your thing, it's not your thing. It's not preachy its ultimately testament to its forefathers, indebted to its foundations & paying tribute through one man's unique understanding & interpretation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member KyFi Posted January 29, 2011 Member Share Posted January 29, 2011 I'm probably more on the peringaten side of the fence on this one. I haven't studied Hung Gar, but I have studied other Chinese arts under a Chinese teacher, and both this movie and 36th Chamber really have tremendous amounts of depth in them pursuant to Chinese martial arts. Executioners more for the Taoist yin/yang philosophy and its martial applications, and 36th Chamber more for the proper training attitude, progression and ultimate freedom of creativity (inventing the 3-sectional staff) only AFTER many years mastering the formal training). With perningatens "jazz music" reference, I was trying to come up with an analogous case in Western filmmaking where you had somebody who was so knowledgeable in a subject, and who was also an accomplished filmmaker. I couldn't think of an example. It would be as if you had a world-class classical musician who was also a talented filmmaker, and who decided to make a film about Mozart---bringing his firsthand knowledge of the intricacies of classical music into the film. LKL is just able to bring things to the table that no one else could. But aside from the highbrow musings, I just find Executioners to be wildly entertaining. IMO Pai Mei in this one is the single best villain in all of Shaw filmdom, Chen Kuan Tai is one of the best heroes, and the fights are perfect to me---I didn't want this movie any more or less violent. Also, the epic sweep/passage of time of the story, the historical references, the romance and warm family life, and some well-placed comedy. This is definitely in my top 5 Shaws. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member John Posted January 29, 2011 Member Share Posted January 29, 2011 @peringaten: You don't have to write an essay or anything, but for the volume and furor with which you deliver your opinion it's unfortunate you don't in any way evidence how the film is "musician's music", how people are "missing the point", or why LKL's ideology makes this a good film. I recently saw Executioners and my immediate impressions are: i) Absolutely fantastic choreography, athleticism, stunt work, and the cinematography to let it shine. I've seen my fair share of LKL; vacuum crotch was decidedly camp and didn't really impress after the third time, but everything else was A-game. No questions there. ii) As rocky as the narrative is, it's got the raw energy to keep on chugging through. It's not like Iron Monk where it's all fun and games before things get seriously grim. This is the balanced bizarre mix of emotions that makes this era of HK cinema so charmingly bipolar; it's a genre trope of Cantonese kung fu. It's melodramatic, but it's also fun. iii) I didn't ever have a moment of clarity about LKL's philosophy. If it's like you say it is, then this must be the great for Hung Gar practicioners or whoever the microscopically small audience is that can appreciate that aspect. For the rest of us, you sound like the guy raving about how this 20 hour long Avante Garde film from the 60s has rendered further exploration of the medium a surely fruitless endeavor. Glad you like it, but this seems like a very narrow set of criteria to evaluate history's number one kung fu film. I don't know how or why such a title is even an important thing to be sure of. Yet one thing I am sure of is that you're going to alienate people that don't identify with your quaint controversy; think of what San Te would say! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Shawoholic Posted January 29, 2011 Member Share Posted January 29, 2011 the movie should of ended how it began, bloody and violent, like how a classic 70s kung fu movie should. I agree, feels like they are from different movies now.Considering tone of some of LKL movies flicks, at the end Pai Mei and Weng-Ding could just had drink and say let bygones be bygones. It`s still good movie most of time,CKT and Lily Li are fine actors and 2 attempts of CKT taking on Pai Mei are great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member peringaten Posted January 29, 2011 Member Share Posted January 29, 2011 @peringaten: You don't have to write an essay or anything, but for the volume and furor with which you deliver your opinion it's unfortunate you don't in any way evidence how the film is "musician's music", how people are "missing the point", or why LKL's ideology makes this a good film. I recently saw Executioners and my immediate impressions are: i) Absolutely fantastic choreography, athleticism, stunt work, and the cinematography to let it shine. I've seen my fair share of LKL; vacuum crotch was decidedly camp and didn't really impress after the third time, but everything else was A-game. No questions there. ii) As rocky as the narrative is, it's got the raw energy to keep on chugging through. It's not like Iron Monk where it's all fun and games before things get seriously grim. This is the balanced bizarre mix of emotions that makes this era of HK cinema so charmingly bipolar; it's a genre trope of Cantonese kung fu. It's melodramatic, but it's also fun. iii) I didn't ever have a moment of clarity about LKL's philosophy. If it's like you say it is, then this must be the great for Hung Gar practicioners or whoever the microscopically small audience is that can appreciate that aspect. For the rest of us, you sound like the guy raving about how this 20 hour long Avante Garde film from the 60s has rendered further exploration of the medium a surely fruitless endeavor. Glad you like it, but this seems like a very narrow set of criteria to evaluate history's number one kung fu film. I don't know how or why such a title is even an important thing to be sure of. Yet one thing I am sure of is that you're going to alienate people that don't identify with your quaint controversy; think of what San Te would say! Sigh, there's too much to say & I've written about it too many times on this board that this time it pushed me into that reply. Plus there's things that would be easier to show you to point out rather than type... Ok, very basically - the film is a breakdown & evolution of the hung kuen system. 1stly the original title is Hong Xi Guan, named and based on the alleged founder of the system. The film begins with Gee Sin being beaten by Pei Mei. Gee Sin holds a place in history as the alleged monk who taught & spread the original shaolin kung fu that became the southern systems we know today. Now the thing is these guys are legends, possibly myths, possibly truths. Some histories claim no such person as Hung Xi Guan, thjat he was actually a movement of rebellion the translated word hung that gave the system its name having other meanings of a wave of uprising etc., that forged the martial. Some say Gee Sin didn't exist, or did & hung xi guan didn't etc (see Abbot Of Shaolin for another take on the Gee Sin story)... so, what we have in Executioners is these characters as metaphor. Gee Sin didn't have to die at the begininning story wise as not every version of the legends states Pei Mei killed him; there is a tale that Pei Mei betrayed the shaolin temple & sent Southern martials out into the world though... however in Executioners Gee Sin has to die - most in this film who represent an unevolved facet of the hung kuen system have to be killed off for the evolution to take place in reaction. Gee Sin represents the basic foundation of hung kuen - this is represented in the choreography. So from here we branch out into the spread of the system from the temple into the mix of influences that resulted in the artform hung kuen as we know it today. So firstly the shaolin disciples. As RogueWarrior pointed out Gordon Liu's character only fights with 3 of the hung kuen animals - dragon, leopard & snake, each has its own principles in the art, these are again shown in the choreography, he is however missing the evolution of the tiger & the crane, so has to die as an unevolved facet of the artform, for the continuation & growth as reaction. This leads us to the redboats these are the opera boats on which the arts mixed & travelled result in many influences leading to thew art today - wing chun is said to have similar roots on these, styles relate. Opera played a part in it's physical influence. The film could be as much about the whole being Hung Xi Guan than just Chen Kuan Tai. So.... Chen Kuan Tai, he represents the tiger, strong forceful - it would be great if we were in person so I could run through the moves in principle - it's hard to describe otherwise. Into the mix - Lily Li - she represents the crane, softer more precise & flowing. The two working in unison are the heart of the hung kuen system. Now, I don't know if it's easy enough to grasp otherwise, but in many ways some of this stuff only makes sense when you apply the movements in application yourself with guidance from a good sifu... anyway - the two hard & soft, Chen Kuan Tai & Lily Li are drawn together & repelled at odds also. The bedroom scenes are a representation of this - you can't just overcome with raw force. Lily Li represents foundation. Once stucture is developed through stance work in this system & you no longer are fighting yourself to make it work, true strength follows. It's interesting to note that Chen Kuan Tai finally overcomes her with pressure points to break the structure. The first inkling of things to come I guess. So anyway, into the mix, we bring Wong Yue's alledgedly controversial character. He represents the evolution of the two. Is there a historical basis for him? Well, I believed he was made up for the movie, but there exist some documents recording such a character from earlier in the 20th C for example. Either way, here he is used as metaphor. Apparently his outfit is realistic to the time for boys, so don't get hung up on that. Chen Kuan Tai's tiger style is forced, he is fighting against himself. Strained. It ultimately will lead to his downfall - like those that came before he will have to die as an unevolved tenet of the artform. It doesn't matter how long he trains he will never truly progress without the neccessary balances he needs to make his training work. We see Wong Yue as the burden of this balance on his back when he clamps his father in stance & can't be thrown off - I'm not kidding! So he can train for ten years it doesn't matter he's fighting himself. Now Pei Mei & the dummy. Hung gar kuen comes as much from a health & medical standpoint as it does from a fighting standpoint. From shaolin they were concerned as much with both allegedly. Hung Kuen's great masters have understanding of both for good reason. Look at Wong Fei Hung & Po Chi Lam! Anyway, there are certain theories of structure & energy & meridian lines that run through the body in Chinese medicine; theories of the internal that have led to such as hung kuen's highest set the Iron Wire Thread being developed. There are theories relating to acupuncture, pressure points & positionings of energy in the body at certain times of day in the medicine. The idea of Pei Mei being vulnerable at certain times of day comes from a medicine standpoint, not just movie invention. The more you dig into that the more this element of the movie will become clear - fighting, internals & medicine are strong elements of the balanced system. Now, I'm not too clued up on this stuff, I use a basic understanding to help me with structural points of my posture. It's all about balance with your surroundings. Pei Mei kung fu is an actual system, however it's not really represented in this film - here the character is more about the internal. Conditioning. Wang Lung Wei has a good crack at it in Clan of the White Lotus though. Now it's inevitable that Chen Kuan Tai will die, we established already... so onto Wong Yue. He mixes the hard & soft. He has his father's tiger manual however part of it is missing - he cannot learn the full system of hard force as his father understood it. He has to balance it with the ease of movement in the crane principles. The fact that he doesn't have the full manual speaks for the initiative of evolution that takes place into the alchemy of progression. It doesn't matter that he learns for far less time than his father, he is not fighting himself - he is evolving the system into something more tenable. You learn the foundation, the principles, you can improvise & progress. He takes this to Pei Mei. Now anyone who thinks he doesn't move right here doesn't know much about kung fu, Wong Yue's movement is expertly guided by LKL to show priniples in the kung fu. Now the ballsack sucking thing... ok, bit stumped, there's way more I got to figure from this movie - especially in terms of the actual kung fu (so much going on - I wish we were in person to run through). Perhaps it speaks for a facet of sexual preservation? Look at what LKL & Hsiao Hou spout as some of the last lines of Mad Monkey Kung Fu... balanced testosterone is one thing. Perhaps it speaks for conditioning & the seemingly penetrable as impenetrable. Perhaps it's just hokey gimmick... Eith way, this film ultimately portrays the principles of the tiger crance system of hung gar kuen - the end fight didn't need to be long at all - it just flowed in balance. Less a struggle. The last lines of the film are Tiger Crane defeated Pei Mei. If we were in person & I could show you correct moves you could gain even more insight - I'm not using hyperbole - there's certain things come to light with prolonged practice, even the obvious. I still have much to learn Basic spiel over - this film offers more, no other film offers this depth of characters as principles of movement; just want some basics over. So much to learn from the actual choreo I can't go into. There's the heart of the film. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member TibetanWhiteCrane Posted January 29, 2011 Member Share Posted January 29, 2011 Not exactly a favourite of mine, though still a fine film. And peringaten is right, this movie has more meaning if you, yourself train in chinese kung fu. And I can imagine, even more, if you train hung gar! But I think that is actually true for a lot of kung fu films. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member peringaten Posted January 29, 2011 Member Share Posted January 29, 2011 But I think that is actually true for a lot of kung fu films.So true. Just few if any martial films seem to have the roundedness of homage to system & showcase of its elements that this one does. Clan was similar, reworking, but less profound a homage to its roots. Plenty of films exist with the same characters, but they just tell stories with them, this one used them as metaphor also. Lau Kar Leung films are always about hung kuen in some way, but this one really embodied it. In the lineage, each master gave a great contribution to the style - Wong Fei Hung orchestrated the tiger crane set from its elements, his student Lam Sai Wing & his disciples documented it for the ages in book form, Lau Jaam brought it to film, LKL gave us Executioners, or should I say "Hung Hei Goon". Each has their unique contribution to further the art outside of personal study. And people who know nothing of it just look and go - needs more blood, Wong Yue looks like a girl... just like people who don't know much probably look at a representation of Wong Fei Hung's tiger crane set & say "it looks like impractical dancing"... it pisses me off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member OpiumKungFuCracker Posted January 29, 2011 Author Member Share Posted January 29, 2011 @peringaten: I really appreciate you giving an in depth analysis and overview of this movie.. When someone appreciates a movie that much it makes the viewer like myself more self aware of the history and mythology behind it.. But first I'm going to copy and paste this to words document and break them into little paragraphs so it'll be easier for me to read... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Iron Boat Posted January 29, 2011 Member Share Posted January 29, 2011 I actually thought about posting along the lines of "cue Iron Boat to tell you it's downhill from here on in"... It's inevitable that any thread about this film will end up with you and me failing to see eye to eye, maybe your side with a bit of help from Blood Sword... Look we'll just have to beg to differ. This film isn't preachy, it's a tribute to hung gar kuen from one of its great masters, forged entirely from its origins, myths, evolutions, principles, and artistry; with a little light relief to ease it up for those not clued in back in the day. If that's not your thing, it's not your thing. It's not preachy its ultimately testament to its forefathers, indebted to its foundations & paying tribute through one man's unique understanding & interpretation. Ha ha ha, you got me! I am the resident LKL film critic! lol Chen Kuan Tai I will admit gives a strong performance, upon first viewing of Executioners I felt like I was watching another CKT classic like Boxer From Shantung and Blood Brothers, the tone of the film simply changed halfway in and went in a direction I wasn't pleased with. To me I view martial arts films as entertainment first, teaching tool second, if you make the viewer watch and endure a philosopy lesson the least you can do is provide a significant payoff at the end of the film. Whats interesting is that though I am no fan of the comedy, I did enjoy Return to the 36 Chambers, probably because it didn't focus on a real style of martial arts but a fantasy "roof top" kung fu, I appreciated the creativity, the payoff of seeing Gordon Liu unleashed and not confined to the script. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member OpiumKungFuCracker Posted January 29, 2011 Author Member Share Posted January 29, 2011 fantasy "roof top" kung fu. Another aspect of Kung Fu movies I love is the fantasy, dream like escape to another time and place, kind of like a fable/fairy tale... Every once in awhile I love a good fun time kung fu movie and take some break from the serious history lesson type ones, but I love them both equally... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member John Posted January 29, 2011 Member Share Posted January 29, 2011 @:peringaten: Do I spot an Indie Documentary in the making? That's pretty interesting; my brief encounters with traditional Chinese medicine have been full of head scratchers; I've drawn the conclusion that I never want to be a pregnant Chinese woman. But hey, alchemists got us to chemistry among other things. Now if only you could master formatting forms. And people who know nothing of it just look and go - needs more blood, Wong Yue looks like a girl... just like people who don't know much probably look at a representation of Wong Fei Hung's tiger crane set & say "it looks like impractical dancing"... it pisses me off. Inasmuch as the gender confusion and general intercultural misunderstandings, that's a universal; I should hope you don't think Chinese singled out among the many (ahem) unique peoples of the world. It's also worth mentioning that there are many exponents of things like Wing Chun that have steadily eroded expectations of the Chinese MA world. I wouldn't jump to the conclusion every variation of every CMA is a cultural cash-in or in a state of utter decay and uselessness, but boy are there some of those! Anyone of actual merit is has to compete with that tidal wave of sadness. If you want to change minds, hurl your finest Hung into a competitive circuit! Just remember: vacuum crotch is probably against the rules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Truecos2 Posted January 30, 2011 Member Share Posted January 30, 2011 This was one of my favorites as a kid on the Kung Fu Network. For those of us who was new to Shaolin history, I like the fact that Bak Mei, Bai Mei, White Eyebrows of the Legendary 5 Elders was actually implemented in a movie. That said, his use of the Iron skin technique was definitely what made this a great movie. IMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member kungfusamurai Posted February 2, 2011 Member Share Posted February 2, 2011 Definitely my favourite Pops film, and one of the best kung fu films ever made. KFS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Akuma Posted February 2, 2011 Member Share Posted February 2, 2011 Definitely my favourite Pops film, and one of the best kung fu films ever made. KFS Definetly.....Also one of my fav Kung fu Movie....This movie is Deep. Chen kuan tai and Lo lieh are Brilliant in this flick. BTW....The fist of white Lotus doesnt come anywhere near as good as Executioners IMO. Executioners from Shaolin is a CLASSIC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Tosh Posted February 4, 2011 Member Share Posted February 4, 2011 Another aspect of Kung Fu movies I love is the fantasy, dream like escape to another time and place, kind of like a fable/fairy tale... Every once in awhile I love a good fun time kung fu movie and take some break from the serious history lesson type ones, but I love them both equally... You should watch Battle Wizard then:xd: I like the break of him meeting Lily Li, gretting married and having a kid, it makes the movie more real and Chen Kuan Tai's character more human. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Iron Boat Posted February 4, 2011 Member Share Posted February 4, 2011 You should watch Battle Wizard then:xd: I like the break of him meeting Lily Li, gretting married and having a kid, it makes the movie more real and Chen Kuan Tai's character more human. Thats true but they kind of come off as being to stoic, especially Lily Li, I actually like Chen Kuan Tai's family scenes in Flying Gullotine better, came off as more realistic. In Executioners they were nearly living a peaceful suburban lifestyle, I like the on the run feel of Guillotine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator Asmo Posted April 7, 2011 Moderator Share Posted April 7, 2011 Could it have been Clan/Fist of the White Lotus? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member massa_yoda Posted November 11, 2011 Member Share Posted November 11, 2011 I saw this for the first time last night. I'm still thinking about it. The historical context and symbolism provided by peringaten helped a lot. I thought the story was very good, though a bit jarring. The movie makes big jumps in time with no transition. Usually there is a quick montage or something to fill the gap, but this is a small critique. The action and the training were all good, no complaints there. Now, to things I found strange. This movie was pretty preoccupied with crotch. Snake, Crane, Tiger all just different ways to attack someone's crotch. At least that's what this film taught me. Then there was Pei Mei and his special 'move'. Still trying to figure that one out. Also there is the abrupt ending. It would have taken just 30 seconds more to create a proper ending, which made me think there HAS to be a point to this. Maybe LKL wanted to end it like you were reading a book and you had to use your imagination, or maybe he just felt you knew what was about to happen so showing it is unnecessary. There was a theme of showing text on the screen, introducing the historical characters when they came on the screen, and this closing text fit with that. I liked it, no doubt. I'm just figuring out a few things. This film felt almost like a warm up to 36th CHAMBER, which has similar elements and is slightly better made. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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