What if Bruce Lee stayed with Lo Wei instead of going with Raymond Chow?

[sdog2006]

Sad but true he did but it's not like Lo didn't deserved it after the shit i heard he tried with Jackie after he decided enough was enough to move on to Golden Harvest. I've heard things about Bruce Lee still im into his flms not his real life, although i find it funny people milk so much making up stuff like the giant robot Samurai,

Yeah from what I understand it was Wang Yu that got that grudge dropped (with Jackie).

Bruce Lee being a bad ass in real life is actually part of his appeal. We all make mistakes and we all have egos. He just didn't live long enough to mellow. The guy was a total firecracker and didn't take any shit.

The whole Robot Samurai crap was created (In Dragon) beacuse the truth about his demise is never explored on film and the only documentary to touch on it is Death by Misadventure. The mystery of his death leaves the door open to create fantasies.

When the film was made Linda put clauses into the contract:

• No mention of hashish or any other drug
  
• No mention of relationships other than with Linda Lee
  

Source is Unsetlled Matters. Speaks volumes. "Bruce went into a mysterious coma and died?????" Yeah, sure he did!

[TheFlyingPanda]

But What If,

He stayed in the states and given the role to Kung Fu T.V show...

How many episodes in a season, like 26??? How long did the show ran in it's entirety, like 3 seasons??

Bruce would have catapulted the show into a decade maybe?? Have films like Enter The Dragon's 1,2,3, and 4...

I've always thought of that too! If he would have had the part, he would have definitely lived longer or stayed alive. Unless the universe has your death predestined Maybe in another dimension this happened!? Of-course to see this, you would have to travel through a black Hole and most likely be destroyed in the process! I cant wait till a supercomputer could just recreate this scenario. Bruce in at least two Shaw bother Movies with Lo Meng, Fu Sheng and the rest of the bunch would have been priceless!

[The Dragon]

... The whole Robot Samurai crap was created (In Dragon) beacuse the truth about his demise is never explored on film and the only documentary to touch on it is Death by Misadventure. The mystery of his death leaves the door open to create fantasies.

When the film was made Linda put clauses into the contract:

• No mention of hashish or any other drug
  
• No mention of relationships other than with Linda Lee
  

Source is Unsetlled Matters. Speaks volumes. "Bruce went into a mysterious coma and died?????" Yeah, sure he did!

Actually the (Robot Samurai?!) was a sort of a re-creation of a revelation Bruce supposedly made to Linda in the late 60's and then again after his May '73 collapse. He described it to her as some sort of a Demon-Dark force which in the 60's-"... held him down, and rendered him helpless although he attempted mightily to free himself..." and after his May '73 collapse, he felt "... some force trying to pull him away and he fought against it with all his strength, for he felt near death..."

She told Cohen the director of Dragon after reading the screenplay, and asked him "how did you know about the Demon?!"... He had made it up.

[sdog2006]

Actually the (Robot Samurai?!) was a sort of a re-creation of a revelation Bruce supposedly made to Linda in the late 60's and then again after his May '73 collapse. He described it to her as some sort of a Demon-Dark force which in the 60's-"... held him down, and rendered him helpless although he attempted mightily to free himself..." and after his May '73 collapse, he felt "... some force trying to pull him away and he fought against it with all his strength, for he felt near death..."

She told Cohen the director of Dragon after reading the screenplay, and asked him "how did you know about the Demon?!"... He had made it up.

Thanks mate.

To be fair though Dragon - The Bruce Lee Story, as I'm sure you would agree, is the biggest mishmash or bullshit ever. If there has been a more inaccurate and clouded portrayel of a celebrity I've yet to see it.

The very notion that you could create/ make up a scene where a demon smashes Bruce Lee's head into his own grave beggers belief! What a load of fake mystical junk! If the family or Estate are given any input on biographical work then it's going to be horse sh*t!

Agreed?

[The Dragon]

Yes, most definitely, agreed.

[AndyWayne84]

Yes, most definetly, agreed.

Exactly. In the end we're not perfect we're just human beings with arms and legs, alot of the greats make mistakes like Bruce and Jackie but i still admire them both as we speak but im not blind and going to deny they have flaws then i'd be a fool saying that.

[Coliseum1972]

Could Chow have known if triads were after his head and tried to reason with them , since he knew Lee was stubborn......maybe it was payback for the Lo Wei incident and refusal of various bribes ?

Also , triads knew Lee couldnt be reasoned with.......Lee said screw you to low pay in Hong Kong , this in turn couldve angered the mob a LOT cuz they knew theyd be financially screwed (not as much as little drips from his films......permanent cash stop) ?

What the heck did Lee talk to Unicorn for hrs about that couldnt wait until Unicorn came back to H.K , could he have feared for his life or was it simply the lawsuit (filmed without permission)

[sdog2006]

Could Chow have known if triads were after his head and tried to reason with them , since he knew Lee was stubborn......maybe it was payback for the Lo Wei incident and refusal of various bribes ?

Also , triads knew Lee couldnt be reasoned with.......Lee said screw you to low pay in Hong Kong , this in turn couldve angered the mob a LOT cuz they knew theyd be financially screwed (not as much as little drips from his films......permanent cash stop) ?

What the heck did Lee talk to Unicorn for hrs about that couldnt wait until Unicorn came back to H.K , could he have feared for his life or was it simply the lawsuit (filmed without permission)

I know what you're saying here mate but what do you think the traids did to him exactly?

I've read the autopsy report, which is available on Bruce Lee Central and there was ZERO external injury. All that shows up is an incision in his left ankle (from years prior) and a needle mark to his chest (adrenalin shot) applied post mortem.

If Triads were looking to kill Bruce Lee you can be sure that they wouldn't do it by poisoning his cannabis stash. Dr Donald Langford and Dr Peter Wu (two prominent medical men) warned him that his body was rejecting the drug he was taking and he kept taking it. It's called drug ideosynrasy apparently and that is what took his life, in Bruce's case brain swelling and subsequent adrenal failure.

The initial (and presumptive) cause of death was listed as cannabis intoxication and the Hong Kong government and several other IMPORTANT people over ruled that for a plethora of reasons.

The only controversy in this is that Betty Ting Pei bottled it and didn't get instant medical attention. If Lee suffered full convulsions, seizures and irregular breathing in a tiny little flat then she knew it was happening and didn't get medical attention quick enough. If she did he might still be here - that's my outlook!

[The Dragon]

I know what you're saying here mate but what do you think the traids did to him exactly?

Poison him.

I've read the autopsy report, which is available on Bruce Lee Central and there was ZERO external injury. All that shows up is an incision in his left ankle (from years prior) and a needle mark to his chest (adrenalin shot) applied post mortem.

That's all that was documented. He had an abrasion over one of his eyes near the temple that clearly showed severe swelling on his morgue photo. His appearance was described as "grey and distorted despite heavy makeup" at the funeral.

If Triads were looking to kill Bruce Lee you can be sure that they wouldn't do it by poisoning his cannabis stash. Dr Donald Langford and Dr Peter Wu (two prominent medical men) warned him that his body was rejecting the drug he was taking and he kept taking it. It's called drug ideosynrasy apparently and that is what took his life, in Bruce's case brain swelling and subsequent adrenal failure.

The other theory Dr. Langford had when Bruce collapsed in May was that he could have been poisoned, which is what the BUN test was suggesting. No one ever examined the hashish Lee had used, only the contents from his vomit. All of his symptoms in May were the same as if he might have ingested rat poison. Same dire effects.

The initial (and presumptive) cause of death was listed as cannabis intoxication and the Hong Kong government and several other IMPORTANT people over ruled that for a plethora of reasons.

The sources would have then had to be revealed, and no-one wanted to follow that smoking gun. "Linda, where did Lee get his stash? Who was in charge of delivering? When and where did the stash come from in May and late July?" Who's gonna answer those questions?

The only controversy in this is that Betty Ting Pei bottled it and didn't get instant medical attention. If Lee suffered full convulsions, seizures and irregular breathing in a tiny little flat then she knew it was happening and didn't get medical attention quick enough. If she did he might still be here - that's my outlook!

He may not have even been alive by the time his body was left at her flat. Why did Chow insist on driving to her place in a typhoon, and not have her call an ambulance sending the man to the hospital since he had an recent episode? Why did Chow keep information regarding what's happening from Lazenby, who was with him?... and...

Where's his other g-damned shoe?

[sdog2006]

Poison him.

Why though, mate? Triads have a reputation for violence, not ninja in the dark poisoning tactics. Or do they? Why go to all this trouble TWICE when you could just get him shot?

That's all that was documented. He had an abrasion over one of his eyes near the temple that clearly showed severe swelling on his morgue photo. His appearance was described as "grey and distorted despite heavy makeup" at the funeral.

Severe swelling and distorted features are synonymous with cerebral oedema. If he had damage to his face it is likely that Ting Pei and Chow were slapping him about the face when they couldn't rouse him. What do you think the swelling is though?

The other theory Dr. Langford had when Bruce collapsed in May was that he could have been poisoned, which is what the BUN test was suggesting. No one ever examined the hashish Lee had used, only the contents from his vomit. All of his symptoms in May were the same as if he might have ingested rat poison. Same dire effects.

I can't see anything that suggests rat poison causes cerebral oedema in humans but I haven't really researched it.

The sources would have then had to be revealed, and no-one wanted to follow that smoking gun. "Linda, where did Lee get his stash? Who was in charge of delivering? When and where did the stash come from in May and late July?" Who's gonna answer those questions?

I'm sure there were several Hong Kong policemen who would have loved to have asked the questions but Lee's influence on young people and Hong Kong's insignificance in terms of medical decision making prevented it from happening. That suited Linda Lee who would have had ZERO insurance money had the truth came out.

He may not have even been alive by the time his body was left at her flat. Why did Chow insist on driving to her place in a typhoon, and not have her call an ambulance sending the man to the hospital since he had an recent episode? Why did Chow keep information regarding what's happening from Lazenby, who was with him?... and...

Yeah this is a tough one. You could also ask if Bruce suffered a horrible headache why didn't he get to hospital himself given the previous incident. What information did Chow withold from Lazenby incidentally? The inquest seems to suggest that Chow was coming back to her flat to continue with a business meeting and that he wasn't aware of Bruce's condition.

Also, if someone says to you that they can't wake a person up you don't automatically assume it's a medical emergency. Any chance that Chow just dropped the ball and assumed Bruce was in a deep sleep?

Where's his other g-damned shoe?

LOL What is the source of the missing shoe? Do you know the answer to this?

[The Dragon]

Why though, mate? Triads have a reputation for violence, not ninja in the dark poisoning tactics. Or do they? Why go to all this trouble TWICE when you could just get him shot?

He was a Union Dues paying member of The Screen Actors Guild, and had just completed shooting WB's Blood and Steel script; the first co-production between a major Hollywood and a HK film studio... A lot of eyes on this project.

Severe swelling and distorted features are synonymous with cerebral oedema. If he had damage to his face it is likely that Ting Pei and Chow were slapping him about the face when they couldn't rouse him. What do you think the swelling is though?

Betty originally reported he fell and hit his head on the nightstand.

If something else occurred, it's easy for forensics to "smooth over the details" if influenced by outer sources.

***NOTE: People have a tendency to forget the culture of HK, particularly at this time... Triads are extremely influential on their society, far more than the Mob here in the U.S. They could have easily had the medical records altered.

I can't see anything that suggests rat poison causes cerebral oedema in humans but I haven't really researched it.

You can Google the effects of rat poison and what it does to a victim. The BUN test will be similar.

http://www.ehow.com/facts_5048294_rat-poison-symptoms-humans.html

Bruce was experiencing several of these symptoms...

I'm sure there were several Hong Kong policemen who would have loved to have asked the questions but Lee's influence on young people and Hong Kong's insignificance in terms of medical decision making prevented it from happening. That suited Linda Lee who would have had ZERO insurance money had the truth came out.

No one would admit to having anything to do with this... It's the kind of smoking gun that opens doorways that people just don't want opened.

Yeah this is a tough one. You could also ask if Bruce suffered a horrible headache why didn't he get to hospital himself given the previous incident. What information did Chow withold from Lazenby incidentally? The inquest seems to suggest that Chow was coming back to her flat to continue with a business meeting and that he wasn't aware of Bruce's condition.

In a raging typhoon? Lee's original meeting that afternoon was "... to hear Raymond out..."

on a many a subject; matters that they had feuded over the previous months. Remember Lee's bout with Lo Wei? Well he was rumored to have slugged/punched Chow! I don't believe Chow arrived at The Crane's Nest alone. Maybe Chan Wai Man and a few stuntmen accompanied Chow.

Also, if someone says to you that they can't wake a person up you don't automatically assume it's a medical emergency. Any chance that Chow just dropped the ball and assumed Bruce was in a deep sleep?

After the events of May 10TH, 1973, this is absolutely ludicrous. Chow knew Lee's condition, first hand for that matter. If he didn't want the man to survive, all he need do was what he did...

Nothing.

LOL What is the source of the missing shoe? Do you know the answer to this?

The missing shoe indicates the body was tampered/moved, that's all.

Dragon out.

[sdog2006]

He was a Union Dues paying member of The Screen Actors Guild, and had just completed shooting WB's Blood and Steel script; the first co-production between a major Hollywood and a HK film studio... A lot of eyes on this project.

Understood but there has to be an easier way of doing things, especially considering that this failed the first time. Okay boys, he survived once, lets really get it done this time?

Betty originally reported he fell and hit his head on the nightstand.

Where was that reported? It flies in the face of the inquest and adds further fuel to the flames in regards to her not doing anything!

If something else occurred, it's easy for forensics to "smooth over the details" if influenced by outer sources.

***NOTE: People have a tendency to forget the culture of HK, particularly at this time... Triads are extremely influential on their society, far more than the Mob here in the U.S. They could have easily had the medical records altered.

Have you ever heard of medical records being altered in Hong Kong through triad involvement or anything similar?

You can Google the effects of rat poison and what it does to a victim. The BUN test will be similar.

http://www.ehow.com/facts_5048294_rat-poison-symptoms-humans.html

Bruce was experiencing several of these symptoms...

Thanks for the link, bro!

In a raging typhoon? Lee's original meeting that afternoon was "... to hear Raymond out..."

on a many a subject; matters that they had feuded over the previous months. Remember Lee's bout with Lo Wei? Well he was rumored to have slugged/punched Chow! I don't believe Chow arrived at The Crane's Nest alone. Maybe Chan Wai Man and a few stuntmen accompanied Chow.

Bruce and Adrian Marshall were going to hear Raymond out at a later date as Bruce was not commital without a lawyer. The July 20th meeting was concerning Lazenby's involvement in GOD from what I can gather AND.

I cannot, for the life of me, see a p*ssy like Raymond Chow turn up at Bruce Lee's house and start an argument. Chan Wai Man was a bad ass but they're taking their life in their hands against a martial artist of Bruce Lee's calibre. Chow doesn't strike me as having the balls for such a confrontation. If anything like that was going to happen his ass would have been back at Golden Harvest Studios.

After the events of May 10TH, 1973, this is absolutely ludicrous. Chow knew Lee's condition, first hand for that matter. If he didn't want the man to survive, all he need do was what he did...

Nothing.

People have a habit of being very very stupid!

The missing shoe indicates the body was tampered/moved, that's all.

Dragon out.

What is the source for the missing shoe though?

Thanks for coming back to me, mate!

[Golden Arm Kid]

I personally believe that Bruce died from a either the allergic reaction to Equagesic and/or the hashish he was ingesting from Nepal. I'm less sure about the Equagesic and more confident in the hashish use though. Like a lot of others have said, Bruce was an off the wall and high strung kind of guy. He was always doing 1000 things at once and moving at 100 miles an hour. In the words of Bob Wall, Bruce said that marijuana (not the hashish though) was the only thing that could slow down the pace of things.

I really do not believe that Bruce was murdered or killed by someone. I really think that's a bunch of crap in my opinion. I believe that Raymond Chow ONLY has cared about money and while he may have put on the facade of being friends with Bruce, he'd only been looking out for himself. However, it would make absolutely NO sense WHATsoever for Raymond to have Bruce taken out. Bruce was Chow's meal ticket. Raymond was LUCKY LUCKY LUCKY to have found another big star in Jackie Chan to keep leeching off of after Bruce's death. Why would Raymond kill Bruce KNOWING that he would continue to make him MILLIONS upon MILLIONS of dollars? Without Bruce Ray would've been making chump change movies. So no, I really do not believe that Raymond had anything to do with Bruce's death directly. I will say that if Chow had to choose between all the money in my pocket at the moment and Bruce's life he would probably take all 2 dollars and 50 cents without a second thought.

The one and ONLY thing I can't figure out is the mystery of the missing shoe. That's the only thing that leaves me open to him potentially being moved or something. In reality it could've been something crazy like Bruce somehow had a funny incident or something and lost the shoe or something but why wouldn't Betty or Raymond mention something like that? The shoe thing is still very fishy to me. Everything else fits the bill to a self-destruction (hashish use, SWEAT GLAND REMOVAL, ect.) though.

[The Dragon]

Naive you may be regarding HK film industry early 70's. Jimmy Wang Yu got run out of HK for wanting to "write his own ticket." He was banished to Taiwan and Japan for years. Others took an early retirement, and others still found their way out by way of suicide.

Lee wasn't special in this case, however, he was essential in fortifying a deal met by others who followed that "to tow the line" would be the way to survive.

Lee's death left a void in the HK action movie industry so vast, they actually thrived and benefited off his death by cashing in on anything that served his name, likeness, or his films title-related. This continued on for the rest of the decade. In the mean time, Sammo, Jackie, Yuen Biao, The Yuen Clan, The Lau bros, and many others, found screen-time, behind the scene time, and directorial time to develop into the legendary artists they have become.

Isn't it ironic that part of Bruce's plan upon leaving HK, was to take as many of these talents to America with him and form his own studio. That was a seldom mentioned new plan he had after the completion of ETD

Imagine the depleted talent pool of the HK film industry had he been able to carry through that plan.

[Golden Arm Kid]

Naive you may be regarding HK film industry early 70's. Jimmy Wang Yu got run out of HK for wanting to "write his own ticket." He was banished to Taiwan and Japan for years. Others took an early retirement, and others still found their way out by way of suicide.

Lee wasn't special in this case, however, he was essential in fortifying a deal met by others who followed that "to tow the line" would be the way to survive.

Lee's death left a void in the HK action movie industry so vast, they actually thrived and benefited off his death by cashing in on anything that served his name, likeness, or his films title-related. This continued on for the rest of the decade. In the mean time, Sammo, Jackie, Yuen Biao, The Yuen Clan, The Lau bros, and many others, found screen-time, behind the scene time, and directorial time to develop into the legendary artists they have become.

Isn't it ironic that part of Bruce's plan upon leaving HK, was to take as many of these talents to America with him and form his own studio. That was a seldom mentioned new plan he had after the completion of ETD

Imagine the depleted talent pool of the HK film industry had he been able to carry through that plan.

I suppose. I've come to expect and respect your opinions Dragon. You always bring up very unique points and interesting comments that make me think. Even if I don't agree with you on things I appreciate your food for thought!

[The Dragon]

I suppose. I've come to expect and respect your opinions Dragon. You always bring up very unique points and interesting comments that make me think. Even if I don't agree with you on things I appreciate your food for thought!

It's cool. Studying the life of Bruce Lee led me toward learning more about the culture and therefore the film industry of HK. It's quite fascinating, compared to Western culture; and in a paradox with the return of HK to China, only recently have they assimilated more Western tradition openly, but remain a tight-fisted culture I've come to truly respect.

[sdog2006]

Naive you may be regarding HK film industry early 70's. Jimmy Wang Yu got run out of HK for wanting to "write his own ticket." He was banished to Taiwan and Japan for years. Others took an early retirement, and others still found their way out by way of suicide.

Lee wasn't special in this case, however, he was essential in fortifying a deal met by others who followed that "to tow the line" would be the way to survive.

Lee's death left a void in the HK action movie industry so vast, they actually thrived and benefited off his death by cashing in on anything that served his name, likeness, or his films title-related. This continued on for the rest of the decade. In the mean time, Sammo, Jackie, Yuen Biao, The Yuen Clan, The Lau bros, and many others, found screen-time, behind the scene time, and directorial time to develop into the legendary artists they have become.

Isn't it ironic that part of Bruce's plan upon leaving HK, was to take as many of these talents to America with him and form his own studio. That was a seldom mentioned new plan he had after the completion of ETD

Imagine the depleted talent pool of the HK film industry had he been able to carry through that plan.

Yeah there's some great points in there, dude! That makes a lot of sense!

HOWEVER!

PLEASE provide the source of the missing shoe? I've never read this officially or unofficially on anything other than a forum!

[The Dragon]

Yeah there's some great points in there, dude! That makes a lot of sense!

HOWEVER!

PLEASE provide the source of the missing shoe? I've never read this officially or unofficially on anything other than a forum!

Particularly the points mentioning Chan Wai Man, and the fact that HK records could be bought by anyone at the time... Interesting.

http://vampjack.freewebspace.com/LeeDeath5rumours.html

[mpm74]

I like this one:

* Chieh yuan - co star in game of death, died after he gave the details for Game of Death to a Japanese reporter, who published the article in the papers. It was the FIRST time the GAME storyline was leaked to the public, as a result he too died in VERY similar ways to Lee, swelling of the brain.

[Golden Arm Kid]

I like this one:

Was that in The Dragon's link. If not can you provide a source?

Did NOT know those were the circumstances under which Chieh Yuan died. If true that may really shift my thoughts on how big of a role Chinese organized crime played in perhaps Bruce and by extension Cheih's deaths.

Wow.

[sdog2006]

Was that in The Dragon's link. If not can you provide a source?

Did NOT know those were the circumstances under which Chieh Yuan died. If true that may really shift my thoughts on how big of a role Chinese organized crime played in perhaps Bruce and by extension Cheih's deaths.

Wow.

Chieh Yuan did die of brain swelling but he passed in 1977. The plot/ outline of Game of Death was widely known by that point as there were clone movies dating back to 1975.

Tragic coincidence and why would anyone kill him for disclosing a movie plot in the first place?

[The Dragon]

Chieh Yuan did die of brain swelling but he passed in 1977. The plot/ outline of Game of Death was widely known by that point as there were clone movies dating back to 1975.

Tragic coincidence and why would anyone kill him for disclosing a movie plot in the first place?

I'm not certain the implication is he was killed after revealing the GOD plot elements to The Japanese reporter, simply he died thereafter, when no one else was talking about the film.

[sdog2006]

I'm not certain the implication is he was killed after revealing the GOD plot elements to The Japanese reporter, simply he died thereafter, when no one else was talking about the film.

Gotcha

To be fair I visited that site you posted the link for a few years ago. Despite some of it being factual there are virtually no sources mentioned for any of the material and it's just a simple site created by a fan.

I'm still in the dark about the missing shoe which gets mentioned as factual information and was wondering whether you could source that? As I said I've never read anything to suggest this was true.

[The Dragon]

Gotcha

To be fair I visited that site you posted the link for a few years ago. Despite some of it being factual there are virtually no sources mentioned for any of the material and it's just a simple site created by a fan.

I'm still in the dark about the missing shoe which gets mentioned as factual information and was wondering whether you could source that? As I said I've never read anything to suggest this was true.

JKL, a member here has that information. He PM'd me and I have since accidentally erased the message. There were also revelations from Lee's stuntmen, (including Si Fu Jai, Chen Lung, Robert Chan, and others), sitting in the Lee household after he died, speaking of "... If we had gotten there sooner, he'd still be alive..." to which Linda blurted, "Just leave it alone! He's dead and nothing's gonna change that!"

[sdog2006]

JKL, a member here has that information. He PM'd me and I have since accidentally erased the message. There were also revelations from Lee's stuntmen, (including Si Fu Jai, Chen Lung, Robert Chan, and others), sitting in the Lee household after he died, speaking of "... If we had gotten there sooner, he'd still be alive..." to which Linda blurted, "Just leave it alone! He's dead and nothing's gonna change that!"

I'll maybe pop JKL a PM. Thanks a lot bro.