Know What It's Time For?

[Guest BKarza]

The damn workprit version of Hard Target to be released on dvd. I have both the jap version and the workprint on tape. The workprint is true Woo...true Woo.

With all these unrated, re-releases and special editions of even the most obscure, it's time for this.

[Guest sevenhooks]

Major cosign!

I only saw this version once and I was like, "Damn", if they only screened THIS version, Woo might have made a name for himself here a lot sooner - though that happened eventually with Broken Arrow and Face Off.

The gunfights - particularly at the end - with all the close up action - was straight outta Hard Boild / The Killer.

Classic Woo.

[Guest Markgway]

The UK version of Hard Target has about 90% of the violence from the workprint restored.

[Guest Chinatown Kid]

I'm gonna have to pick up the UK print then, why does the US want to edit all the good stuff out?:rolleyes

[Guest BKarza]

it's not quite like that. Woo made this like he would his HK films.(violence and the way he lensed) Fox, for some reason, were suprised at what he made. Made him keep cutting out the more "extreme" stuff. Bodies getting hit many times w/bullets. In all honesty, he was always going to be too much for the US scene, so I'm not suprised.

Thing is, the workprint has more footage as a whole. Story, scenes, visuals, slo mo shots of this and that. Many things were taken out to get to the US version run time. That movie even in it's US version is the most Woo of his US stuff. The wp is pure HK style Woo with a non HK cast. There is quite a bit cut from the beginning hunt through the city, down to the dock. The killing of VD's friend in the city when he's begging for help, is a bit longer and more...extreme. It has waaaay more impact.

Mark, does the UK print have the non action footage restored, or is it the same as the US but with 90% of the violence back in?

[Guest Chinatown Kid]

Oh, I see then. Not only does the wp have more footage of the action scenes/violence but also has more dramatic scenes and extra footage. I just wish Fox would have released the film here in the US the way Woo intended it to be and kept the true artistic integrity of the film. The unedited footage might have been shocking to some people unfamiliar with Woo but his fans here in the US would have loved and expected the OTT violence and trademark Woo touches. I would love to see that wp version!

[Guest Markgway]

why does the US want to edit all the good stuff out?

Blame the MPAA who gave Woo a bloody hard time.

Fox, for some reason, were suprised at what he made.

Universal.

Made him keep cutting out the more "extreme" stuff. Bodies getting hit many times w/bullets.

It was because the film was awarded an NC-17 in its first six submissions. The editing became more and more restrictive. The reason why Universal advised Woo before filming to tone down the bloodshed was because they knew this would happen.

Thing is, the workprint has more footage as a whole. Story, scenes, visuals, slo mo shots of this and that. Many things were taken out to get to the US version run time.

To be fair to Universal, some of that stuff would likely have been cut anyways by Woo, as an action film was never gonna be released with a 117m run time. The workprint merely represents his first cut, not a final cut; how that would've turned out is anyone's guess. Though I suspect the UK version, which restores most of the violence, might be very close.

That movie even in it's US version is the most Woo of his US stuff.

Agreed. Despite what mainstream critics say: Hard Target is Woo's best US film and beats Face/Off into a cocked hat.

There is quite a bit cut from the beginning hunt through the city, down to the dock.

Most of that deleted footage is restored to the UK version.

The killing of VD's friend in the city when he's begging for help, is a bit longer and more...extreme. It has waaaay more impact.

Unfortunately that scene is the same as the R-rated print here; it's the only scene not in the UK version that I personally would have restored, as it's quite potent uncut.

Mark, does the UK print have the non action footage restored, or is it the same as the US but with 90% of the violence back in?

Pretty much only the violence has been restored. But I doubt a lot of the WP "character" scenes would've made a final cut anyways. That's just my opinion. The editing rhythm of the violence in the UK print is more akin to Woo's HK style than the R-rated print in which so many shots are truncated. I do recall the UK print has a bit more dialogue than the R-rated version near the end when Fouchon asks "How it feels to be hunted?" It can be found in the WP also.

The unedited footage might have been shocking to some people unfamiliar with Woo but his fans here in the US would have loved and expected the OTT violence and trademark Woo touches.

Actually the WP isn't much more graphic than your average Steven Seagal film. The only difference is the sheer number of bullets fired. The MPAA weren't used to such intensity and wanted less bullets...less mayhem as it were.

EDIT: Additional thought. One scene that Universal may have insisted upon cutting was the montage of animal hunting deaths. It's unpleasent, unecessary, and the general public in the west wouldn't haved liked it. I'm glad it was taken out.

[Guest Chinatown Kid]

That's interesting info Mark. It was suprising to hear that the UK print of Hard Target had more violent scenes than the US version because I always thought the UK censors were more strict on violence than here in the US. I know that all the nunchuka scenes in Bruce Lee's movies used to be edited out of all the UK versions but over here they were never censored. Did the UK used to be more strict on violence but now have become more leanient than the US? Europe has always been more leanient when it comes to nudity I believe.

[Guest BKarza]

Fox, Universal. Thanks for the correction. Laziness on my part. The tape is right there.

The workprint was always known to be the raw cut, as it uses stock music to fill in for where the real may go. That said, as a movie, and making sense, it's the one that works between the two. The "real" cut story wise is too lean and straight foreword. It comes off as a quick little action movie and that's it. The wp works on all levels as a film. That's why I say it was pure Woo, unlike the other movies he did that seemed like he was a hack of himself.(esp. BA) When it came out, let's say that was fine, but now we need to open it up to what is was(117 min). Yes, it's pure speculation as to what would have remained anyway, but the story bits deleted, help some connecting things make sense.

May have to watch this this weekend.

[Guest Markgway]

Did the UK used to be more strict on violence but now have become more leanient than the US?

Right on. If you can play R2 you should get the UK disc. It's not expensive these days. Non-anamophic transfer is the only drawback.

The "real" cut story wise is too lean and straight foreword. It comes off as a quick little action movie and that's it.

I disagree -- to an extent. To me most of the extra footage in the WP doesn't add any depth to the movie or really strengthen the characters all that much. (The romantic bit between Chance and Natasha seems perfunctory). But the lean, mean slickness of the UK cut delivers the pump-action goods whilst maintaining nearly all the style and satire (Fouchon's piano-playing is still there, just without the horrible animal hunt footage).