Member DrNgor Posted June 18, 2021 Member Share Posted June 18, 2021 I had to watch Butterfly and Sword and Kung Fu Cult Master several times to understand the story. I'm not exactly sure that I understood Samurai Death Bells. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Cognoscente Posted June 18, 2021 Member Share Posted June 18, 2021 The Taiwanese version of Butterfly and Sword is best viewed since the ending isn't abridged. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Kwai Posted June 18, 2021 Member Share Posted June 18, 2021 6 hours ago, Cognoscente said: My confusion stems from the warped view of love that Hsu Feng's character has for Jackie. Not only does she not kill him, she falls in love with him....yet she scars him and makes him swallow hot coal, and he doesn't choke or die from it! She is in a love/hate-relationship with him because Hsu Fengs character realizes he only loves the other woman, so therefore even if she loves him, she in a sick way tortures him to force him to stay with her. When she realizes it doesn't make any sense and that he would rather die than forget his love, she tells him that with her training he is now able to revenge his friend and get his love back by killing the traitor. Remember that Hsu Feng scarred him like she got a scar from Jackies dad. With the scar in his face and his changed voice because of the coal he got to eat he is able to enter the palace without being recognised. It has a slightly sadomachist touch. I think that in some ways the movie in todays culture would work pretty good. The real badass who could kill everybody immidiatley is Hsu Fengs character - a woman. She trains him and in the end she is happy that at least he won't forget her (that's what he said before he leaves her) 5 hours ago, Cognoscente said: There is one thing that I take issue with in regards to Jeff Yang's depiction of the Lo Wei years - Jackie supposedly referring to Spiritual Kung Fu as "vulgar" - Drunken Master was vulgar when the king of sticks fell face-first into the excrement, and Young Master was vulgar when Jackie drank water from a stream which a boy was urinating in. Like many others, I never understood why Lo Wei would be livid about Half a Loaf of Kung Fu yet somehow be proud that Spiritual Kung Fu would have audiences "rolling in the aisles" as it were. Jackies first autobiography is full of mistakes. The movies Jackie was more involved with, he likes more. ...there were probably other problems than Lo Wei thinking that HALOKF! wasn't funny. Probably release or money problems. Like I said The book is full of mistakes. But I agree with Jackie: HALOKF! is better than SKF. It has a better told story. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Kwai Posted June 18, 2021 Member Share Posted June 18, 2021 6 hours ago, Cognoscente said: My confusion stems from the warped view of love that Hsu Feng's character has for Jackie. Not only does she not kill him, she falls in love with him....yet she scars him and makes him swallow hot coal, and he doesn't choke or die from it! She is in a love/hate-relationship with him because Hsu Fengs character realizes he only loves the other woman, so therefore even if she loves him, she in a sick way tortures him to force him to stay with her. When she realizes it doesn't make any sense and that he would rather die than forget his love, she tells him that with her training he is now able to revenge his friend and get his love back by killing the traitor. Remember that Hsu Feng scarred him like she got a scar from Jackies dad. With the scar in his face and his changed voice because of the coal he got to eat he is able to enter the palace without being recognised. It has a slightly sadomachist touch. I think that in some ways the movie in todays culture would work pretty good. The real badass who could kill everybody immidiatley is Hsu Fengs character - a woman. She trains him and in the end she is happy that at least he won't forget her (that's what he said before he leaves her) 5 hours ago, Cognoscente said: There is one thing that I take issue with in regards to Jeff Yang's depiction of the Lo Wei years - Jackie supposedly referring to Spiritual Kung Fu as "vulgar" - Drunken Master was vulgar when the king of sticks fell face-first into the excrement, and Young Master was vulgar when Jackie drank water from a stream which a boy was urinating in. Like many others, I never understood why Lo Wei would be livid about Half a Loaf of Kung Fu yet somehow be proud that Spiritual Kung Fu would have audiences "rolling in the aisles" as it were. Jackies first autobiography is full of mistakes. The movies Jackie was more involved with, he likes more. ...there were probably other problems than Lo Wei thinking that HALOKF! wasn't funny. Probably release or money problems. Like I said The book is full of mistakes. But I agree with Jackie: HALOKF! is better than SKF. It has a better told story. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Cognoscente Posted June 18, 2021 Member Share Posted June 18, 2021 1 hour ago, Kwai said: Jackie's first autobiography is full of mistakes. The movies Jackie was more involved with, he likes more. ...there were probably other problems than Lo Wei thinking that HALOKF! wasn't funny. Probably release or money problems. Like I said The book is full of mistakes. But I agree with Jackie: HALOKF! is better than SKF. It has a better told story. I was baffled when Jackie talked about what his first dream project was. First, it was Shaolin Wooden Men then it was S&C Arts of Shaolin in the filmography near the end of the book. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Killer Meteor Posted June 21, 2021 Member Share Posted June 21, 2021 On 6/18/2021 at 5:20 PM, Cognoscente said: There is one thing that I take issue with in regards to Jeff Yang's depiction of the Lo Wei years - Jackie supposedly referring to Spiritual Kung Fu as "vulgar" - Drunken Master was vulgar when the king of sticks fell face-first into the excrement, and Young Master was vulgar when Jackie drank water from a stream which a boy was urinating in. Like many others, I never understood why Lo Wei would be livid about Half a Loaf of Kung Fu yet somehow be proud that Spiritual Kung Fu would have audiences "rolling in the aisles" as it were. I think we now know SKF was a reaction to the success of Snake in the Eagle's Shadow - contrary to Jackie's autobiography, it was produced alongside Drunken Master, not before the Seasonal films. Half A Loaf - does that predate SITES production wise? I suspect Lo Wei didn't so much hate Half a Loaf as distributors didn't want it at first? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Cognoscente Posted June 21, 2021 Member Share Posted June 21, 2021 Half predates SITES but it was filmed over a long period of time due to Jackie having to oscillate between working with Seasonal and Lo Wei. Jackie's face and hair in the finale of Half differ greatly from the rest of the movie. The distributors may have had their reservations but the investors were probably beginning to have second thoughts too until Jackie hit it big with SITES. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Killer Meteor Posted June 21, 2021 Member Share Posted June 21, 2021 So much of that autobiography is dubious. Lo Wei is portrayed as a crook, Run Run Shaw gets dissed...Raymond Chow all sweetness and light. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Cognoscente Posted June 21, 2021 Member Share Posted June 21, 2021 It would appear that some of Jeff Yang's information came from the first issue of Inside Kung Fu's Martial Arts Movies i.e. the idea that Lo deemed Half to be a waste of money, and Drunken Master being an 8 million dollar hit. However, there is more info than what was in Jeff's book. For one thing, S&C Arts of Shaolin was predicted by some martial arts directors to be Jackie's first million dollar hit because of the reputation surrounding the quality of the fight scenes. Also, the Taiwanese version of Shaolin Wooden Men had an ending where Jackie shows mercy to the villain. More relevantly, Half was gradually made through the "independent method of financing a film through foreign sales." Finally, a comparison of the timelines: both start the same way except Jeff has S&C come after To Kill With Intrigue when it should be vice-versa. The article by Neva Friedman has Magnificent Bodyguards come after Half but before SITES followed by Spiritual Kung Fu, Dragon Fist and Drunken Master. Jeff's timeline has it down as Half, MB, SKF, DF, SITES and DM. Neva's timeline makes more sense because having TKWI before Half explains why Jackie wore the exact same costume in the opening vignette of the latter. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member starschwar Posted June 21, 2021 Member Share Posted June 21, 2021 There are few experiences in the entirety of the human condition that can compare to a going-in-blind viewing of Fantasy Mission Force. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Cognoscente Posted June 21, 2021 Member Share Posted June 21, 2021 It's like what if Ken Russell made a Chinese movie. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Killer Meteor Posted June 21, 2021 Member Share Posted June 21, 2021 Ken Russel did make a film where Peter Capaldi defeats a snake vampire with bagpipes... 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member DrNgor Posted June 22, 2021 Member Share Posted June 22, 2021 On 6/21/2021 at 6:10 PM, starschwar said: There are few experiences in the entirety of the human condition that can compare to a going-in-blind viewing of Fantasy Mission Force. Oh yes, the film where we learn that Luxembourg is located somewhere in Canada. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member starschwar Posted June 22, 2021 Member Share Posted June 22, 2021 29 minutes ago, DrNgor said: Oh yes, the film where we learn that Luxembourg is located somewhere in Canada. Close. First, we discover there was a very active Japanese front in Canada - and the forces of the US, UK, France, and... all of Africa? - are outflanked therein. Then we learn that "Tokyo City" is somewhere in Benelux. It's not just alternate history - it's alternate geography! Granted, I'm basing this all on the dub. Perhaps 88 or Eureka will shed some light into this mystery with a true translation. I don't even dislike the movie per se. It's just an undiluted stream of constant bewilderment. A unique experience like no other. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Cognoscente Posted June 28, 2021 Member Share Posted June 28, 2021 I'm reminded of the first Armour of God movie. The geography seems to be all over the place after the African opening. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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