Shaw Bootlegs...Why Are They Allowed?

[David Rees]

Looking at this listing on Ebay.com....SHAW BROTHERS DVDS...you can see that over 50% of those shown are bootlegs by the likes of Panmedia etc...Why is this allowed?...Dont copyright laws count in the USA?..Do you care?....If there was less bootleg stuff then legal companies would have more incentive to release them properly in my opinion.

Surely Celestial or whoever own the rights should clamp down but nothing gets done. You dont see it much in the UK, dont know why, unless the laws are more strict. And as for sites like HK Flix selling them, dont get me started!!:mad:

[odioustrident]

I've heard bootlegging is just a misdemeanor in NY state, which is where those discs are coming from.

The legal fees for a small distro company seem to be too much to go after these people. There are a ton of threads on this topic if you search.

[Reel Power Stunts]

Are you sure "the movies were never copyrighted?". I doubt very much that's the case. The Shaws were (are) canny businessmen, very used to dealing internationally. After the international cinema success of "Five Fingers of Death"/"King Boxer", and co-productions like "Legend of the 7 Golden Vampires", I can't imagine Shaws not ensuring their work was copyrighted.

I'm more inclined to agree with the other point - these are not big Hollywood films. Do the authorities consider it worth tracking the pirates down? If the copyright owners want to pursue the bootleggers themselves through legal action, it's a time taking (expensive) process, where if one seller/oufit gets closed/sued, another one is likely to take its place.

As to David's point about the UK having less of this, I think part of the reason is that in the UK BBFC certification of films is compulsory. This is not cheap, so those not willing to certify can a) pretend they have a certificate, sell their discs and risk prosecution not get a certificate and find shops, Ebay and other online stores won't sell their titles (cos it's illegal).

If you did go to the expense of certifying your film, you would then likely get your title stocked by retailers...but then I guess you would be easier to track down by the likes of lawyers/detectives.

There have been kung fu bootlegs released in the UK, with bogus BBFC certificates (no names of distributors here!), but they tend to be of small independent flicks which aren't likely to have savvy copyright holders 1) even aware of what's selling in UK shops 2) Willing to pay the costs required to crack down.

[The Silver Fox]

Some companies seem to at least try to block them. Tai Seng(perhaps a little dubious,since I've heard Tai Seng is somewhat dodgy as well) and Media Blasters gave HKFlix notice on the titles they have the right to distribute. I've noticed Yesasia also has notifications that they can't sell certain titles in US because of copyrights.

[Rhythm-X]

Some companies seem to at least try to block them. Tai Seng(perhaps a little dubious,since I've heard Tai Seng is somewhat dodgy as well) and Media Blasters gave HKFlix notice on the titles they have the right to distribute. I've noticed Yesasia also has notifications that they can't sell certain titles in US because of copyrights.

Not just Shaw Brothers - Warner Bros. apparently couldn't give less of a shit about rampant bootlegs of their Golden Harvest films.

[Guest Markgway]

Shaw Bros films are all copyrighted. It's just that the bootleggers don't pay any attention.

[David Rees]

Good point about the BBFC in the UK.

It just amazes me when it is so open, if i was a distributor like Media Blasters i would send letters to people selling these saying they are breaking the law and will be prosecuted, that might make them think twice maybe. Its such a shame that it puts off companies from releasing product if it has bootleg copies everywhere. Celestial soon send out warnings to people on forums like this from posting there pictures (amazing when it is actually promoting there product) but do nothing when faced with blatent piracy!

[Michael L.]

Copyright laws are pretty complex but in a nutshell, US law in the 1970s required that the copyright be periodically renewed. If this didn't happen, the film became public domain. If the original US copyright holder (in many cases the company that dubbed and distributed it in the US) did not renew it or had gone out of business without assigning the rights to someone else, then an otherwise copyright film becomes public domain in the US (but only that dubbed version). That is what happened to the first three dubbed Street Fighter films. You also had to specifically claim copyright in the '70s; if you left that out then you were giving the film away (which is what happened to Night of the Living Dead... they changed the credits right before release and cut off the copyright notice). In the pre-VCR days, my guess is that if you heard your US distributor when out of business and the dubbed version of your film was now public domain in the US, you probably didn't pursue it. After all, how many copies of that film were even left after they made the double feature and drive in circuit? It probably wasn't worth the money if you weren't thinking of future home video sales. Given all of this, it is very possible that some dubbed versions are now public domain. I can't say for sure that it happened to Shaw Brothers, but it happened to Toho and Daiei for sure.

Adding to the problem is that many other countries have odd copyright laws regarding older works or works whose copyright were held by companies that have gone out of business. This allows for dodgy companies to release works in that country... and now they get exported elsewhere. This is partially why DVDs were set up with regions in the first place. The idea was it would cut down on international trade of movies. This sets up situations where multiple companies are creating DVDs, all of them claiming they are legally allowed to do so.

Finally, I am sure that Chinese movie companies are low on the FBI's list, at least unofficially, because you can walk down the street in any large Chinese city and buy a shrunkwrap, fully printed DVD of US movies that have barely hit the theaters while talking to the neighborhood beat cop and no one blinks an eye... so when a Chinese movie company cries that their rights are being violated, it doesn't exactly break many hearts! Now, I have no way of knowing FBI policy, but that is my guess!

[Michael L.]

I've heard bootlegging is just a misdemeanor in NY state, which is where those discs are coming from.

The legal fees for a small distro company seem to be too much to go after these people. There are a ton of threads on this topic if you search.

Actually knowingly creating the physical items might be a misdemeanor, but there are still those pesky federal copyright infringement laws. It really is the FBI's job to investigate this stuff... those warnings aren't a joke! In fact, when I started producing DVDs I went to the FBI website and found the exact wording I needed to use!

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/investigate/cyber/ipr/ipr

[Rock_Bottom]

I have reported a few to ebay. But ebay does nothing. They want their cut of the profits yet they claim to be against it. Corporate greed rules the world.

For ebay, they have the VeRO (Verified Rights Owner) Program to enabling rights owners to find and report vilolations...if you are not the Verified Rights Owner there is nothing you can do...here is more about VeRO: http://pages.ebay.com/help/tp/vero-rights-owner.html - which basically states that the rights owner is the only person that can identify and shut down rights infringements...for anyone else "If you are not the intellectual property rights owner, you can still help by getting in touch with the rights owner and encouraging them to contact us."

I'm have no stance on the above, just pointing it out...

And as was noted, you can buy bootleg DVD's on the streets of New York and that's been there forever...from the days of the VCR people have been selling bootleg movies on the streets...hell, I was eating at Nathan's (Coney Island) with friends a couple of years ago and we had to brush-off at least three different people selling bootleg DVD's in about 30 minutes time (not to mention the hundreds of other people all over the city randomly trying to sell you DVD's).

Where there is opportunity, and probably a blind eye, there are people trying to make a buck off the sweat of other people...the internet just opens up new selling avenues and a global customer base...personally I agree with RogueWarrior "Corporate greed rules the world."

[Michael L.]

Yeah, ebay is just as bad as YouTube used to be. I think it has changed on YouTube after a few lawsuits, but it used to be that only the copyright holder could report a video so if Worldwide Pants wanted all Letterman material taken down, they had to have someone go through and report each incident! The funny thing about ebay is that if you put up something with a swastika or something else that violates their terms, it is gone and the user is blocked. Put up something that violates international law...