Detective Dee and the Mystery of the Phantom Flame

[One Armed Boxer]

I finally got around to watching this one tonight, and for me it was a very entertaining movie. Last year was a good year for the early 90s style wuxia movies, with this and 'Reign of Assassins' both successfully capturing that anything goes feel that movies like 'Swordsman 2' had back in the day. From what I've read the recently released 'Legendary Amazons' also continues the trend.

First and foremost 'DDATMOTPF' (longest abbreviated title ever?) is a wuxia movie, so nobody should go into it expecting grounded fight action, and mentioning it in the same sentence as 'Sha Po Lang' and 'Flash Point' seems a little ridiculous to me. But for what it is, it checks all the boxes - an intriguing plot, interesting characters, good wire-fu action, and a breakneck pace, basically it's the early 90s again.

This is the definitely the most fun I've had watching a Tsui Hark flick since 2000s 'Time & Tide', and 11 years is a long time to wait! It seems 'Flying Swords of Dragon Gate' has also been receiving most positive reviews, and after watching 'DDATMOTPF' I'll be looking forward to giving it a go once it gets a DVD release.

[jmungus]

Basically, I thought Detective Dee was not anything special and I loved SPL and Flashpoint but it seems things have gone backward since then with things like Ip Man.

my pov: DD is a quirky fantasy-wuxia-fest par excellence in this day in age that is sweet in many ways.

trademark tsui hark visions brought to life in a nice manner were on a sabbatical way too long and DD managed to deliver.

i for one was disappointed in SPL`s action as there was too little and i found only the final fight to be particularly memorable or worthy of any praise. all in all good movie tho.

FLASHPOINT had some way wicked action, but the flick is a total bore for 2/3 of its running time.

whats wrong with IP MAN ? great movie. modern day setting afficionados might blame it for firing up the trend back to the period setting.

not the period movies`fault HK cinema doesnt seem to be able to produce modern stuff on a level comparable to mid 80s-early 90s MA actioners anymore.

Fatal Contact, Twins Mission, Invisible Target, Fatal Move, Legendary Assassin

very, very very wrong and unfair to INVISIBLE TARGET to put it in the same context with the other stinkers.

sure it had many flaws. yeah its certainly not of cinematic royalty. true as a MA fan growing up with sammo hung, chen kuan tai, hwang jang lee and the likes, one would always hope for some proper display/staging of the good ol`gung. but it has copious amounts of both MA and other gunfights/stunts etc action, that are (often) good entertainment.

[TibetanWhiteCrane]

Yeah, no way is Invinsible Target a stinker, and Fatal Contact is not that bad either.

[KUNG FU BOB]

I finally got around to watching this one tonight, and for me it was a very entertaining movie. Last year was a good year for the early 90s style wuxia movies, with this and 'Reign of Assassins' both successfully capturing that anything goes feel that movies like 'Swordsman 2' had back in the day. From what I've read the recently released 'Legendary Amazons' also continues the trend.

I couldn't agree more. I felt the same way about it as you bro. The trailer spelled it out for me- here's what to expect- and I went into it in the mood to see a quirky '90s style wuxia film. That's what I got. Very entertaining.

my pov: DD is a quirky fantasy-wuxia-fest par excellence in this day in age that is sweet in many ways.

i for one was disappointed in SPL`s action as there was too little and i found only the final fight to be particularly memorable or worthy of any praise. all in all good movie tho.

FLASHPOINT had some way wicked action, but the flick is a total bore for 2/3 of its running time.

very, very very wrong and unfair to INVISIBLE TARGET to put it in the same context with the other stinkers.

sure it had many flaws. yeah its certainly not of cinematic royalty. true as a MA fan growing up with sammo hung, chen kuan tai, hwang jang lee and the likes, one would always hope for some proper display/staging of the good ol`gung. but it has copious amounts of both MA and other gunfights/stunts etc action, that are (often) good entertainment.

Okay, I agree with you on DD, but NOT on SPL. You didn't dig the alley fight? For me, SPL had just enough , and consistently outstanding action.

Though INVISIBLE TARGET has a few real boner moments (like the 500 foot leap across the street from one building top to another), I thought it was unfairly panned and was a decent B-movie actioner that the people that made it tried to pass off as an A-list movie.

Yeah, no way is Invinsible Target a stinker, and Fatal Contact is not that bad either.

You're a trip. LOL

FATAL CONTACT is another silly movie with great fight scenes. I'd watch it ten times before I'd watch LEGENDARY ASSASSINS again. Now that's what I call a real stinker!

[TibetanWhiteCrane]

I wasn't being my usual sarcastic self there, I actually like those movies.

[DiP]

Benny Chan can only make entertaining films but not great films. He doesn't have the expertise nor the technique to pull off anything exceptional. Dennis Law is... urgh... nevermind.

[masterofoneinchpunch]

...This is the definitely the most fun I've had watching a Tsui Hark flick since 2000s 'Time & Tide', and 11 years is a long time to wait! It seems 'Flying Swords of Dragon Gate' has also been receiving most positive reviews, and after watching 'DDATMOTPF' I'll be looking forward to giving it a go once it gets a DVD release.

Having watched Time & Tide recently and Detective Dee this past weekend, I certainly can agree with this (and I watched Zu Warriors a few weeks back, I didn't have such a good time with this). But I found this a seriously fun film with solid acting from the character actors to Andy Lau's lead, good characterizations for those actors, a plot that does not fall into the labyrinth that sometimes befalls wuxia films, great visuals (Hark is usually good in this area) all combining into a well made movie.

I will definitely give Flying Swords of Dragon Gate a go as well.

[jmungus]

You didn't dig the alley fight? For me, SPL had just enough , and consistently outstanding action.

im probably not fit for an indepth fight choreo discussion on SPL right now. watched it twice and last time has been 3, maybe even 4 years ago.

as for the knife fight, im kind of two minds about it. originally i`d like it, wasnt exactly blown away tho. dudes keep hailing it throughout the years and maybe it makes me feel things got a little disproportional. cant say what i`ll say once the SPL-3peat is a done deal.

so i did actually dig it. no doubt its brisk and tight as hell. its just i wasnt all over it. great supplement fight, not outstanding as a major one imo.

wouldnt u agree tho, that SPL could easily use another 2, possibly even 3 extended MA sequences & it wouldnt hurt the movie as a whole at all, on the contrary.

imagine 2 extra fights 4 mins each, an additional 2, 3 mins of plot setting them up.

the movies pacing, structure, atmo would hardly suffer & it would make this nice classic-hk-action-thriller style comeback all the more badass.

cant help it; i feel deeply about these hypothetical extra mins of action missing to make SPL whole.

FLASHPOINT is another story altogether. top action in a predominantly sucky movie. very simple.

and gotten way off topic by now he he.

[razorclam]

I picked up Detective Dee on a whim yesterday, and I'm glad I did. This is the most fun I've had with a Chinese flick in years. The fights were not anything special, but everything else was top notch. It had the same surprising playfulness that Mr. Vampire had. I really enjoyed this film.

James

[KUNG FU BOB]

wouldnt u agree tho, that SPL could easily use another 2, possibly even 3 extended MA sequences & it wouldnt hurt the movie as a whole at all, on the contrary.

imagine 2 extra fights 4 mins each, an additional 2, 3 mins of plot setting them up.

the movies pacing, structure, atmo would hardly suffer & it would make this nice classic-hk-action-thriller style comeback all the more badass.

cant help it; i feel deeply about these hypothetical extra mins of action missing to make SPL whole.

I certainly wouldn't argue that adding more fighting to the film would be bad. Sure, that would probably make it even better. But when I watch it, I never feel that it's lacking fights. Ya know?

However, I may not be in a position to be as objective about the film as most people. There is the distinct possibility that I may be influenced by the excitement of my first viewing, and that the my reaction to the film has been duly colored by it. I saw it in the theater with Sammo, Wu Jing, and the director in attendance! So, that was extremely exciting and may have curbed my watching the film with a more critical eye. Though when I saw the dissapointing THE DUELIST, having the director there did not sway me one bit. I still thought that was an empty, totally misguided film with nothing but poetic visuals going for it.

I picked up Detective Dee on a whim yesterday, and I'm glad I did. This is the most fun I've had with a Chinese flick in years. The fights were not anything special, but everything else was top notch. It had the same surprising playfulness that Mr. Vampire had. I really enjoyed this film.

James

Ah, well put James.

[Drunken Monk]

Though I've been consistently disappointed with Tsui Hark on many an occasion, I was one of the few that actually enjoyed "Seven Swords." So, despite the bad reviews, I find myself leaning more and more towards picking this up.

[TibetanWhiteCrane]

It was ok popcorn entertainment, plus I love Andy Lau in pretty much anything. Bey Logan's audio Comm. helped me appreciate the movie more, as is usually the case.

[KUNG FU BOB]

It was ok popcorn entertainment, plus I love Andy Lau in pretty much anything. Bey Logan's audio Comm. helped me appreciate the movie more, as is usually the case.

Bey did an audio comm on what? DETECTIVE DEE? Is it on the US region 1 release, or a different one? I haven't picked up the official release yet.

Drunken Monk- I thouroughly enjoyed SEVEN SWORDS too. I do wish that Tsui's original cut- which I think was three hours long- would have been released though.

[Drunken Monk]

Drunken Monk- I thouroughly enjoyed SEVEN SWORDS too. I do wish that Tsui's original cut- which I think was three hours long- would have been released though.

You're a man of exquisite taste, Bob!

[jmungus]

I certainly wouldn't argue that adding more fighting to the film would be bad. Sure, that would probably make it even better. But when I watch it, I never feel that it's lacking fights. Ya know?

Though when I saw the dissapointing THE DUELIST, having the director there did not sway me one bit. I still thought that was an empty, totally misguided film with nothing but poetic visuals going for it.

yup i know.... from feeling the same with other titles. with SPL, i feel the opposite, particularly in retrospect.

many, maybe even most of yall fandomers, never fail to praise the knife duel. i fail to feel its magic. it sure aint bad, but ie donnie`s knife fight in (i believe it was) return of chen zhen is considerably more fun to watch. nothing`s bad about SPL, i need to stress that i really dig the flick (whereas "flashpoint" imo is totally overhyped by the likes of us fanboys- choreo+action: ace!!! screenplay: suckage.

i actually do not wanna revisit it ever again. for the great action, i sure wont be able to help it tho. in time.

PS: SPL was part of a movie night in my cozy lil private home theater once. to my surprise, it hadnt won a single one of my friends over (4 or 5 guys, some quite the hk action/fantasy/thriller cinema aficionados, the rest of em at least familiar with some good hk output thx to me)

NOTHING can be done in favour of this snoozer that is "the duelist". "misguided" fits the bill perfectly. "misguided" in terms of tsui`s work is "legend of zu". hints of misguided i find in xanda (producer) and seven swords

[kingofkungfu2002]

Bey did an audio comm on what? DETECTIVE DEE? Is it on the US region 1 release, or a different one? I haven't picked up the official release yet.

It's on the UK 'CineAsia' bluray Bob. Here's a review of the UK release:

http://www.myreviewer.com/Detective_Dee_Mystery_of_the_Phantom_Flame_Blu-ray_Review/a143001

[KUNG FU BOB]

It's on the UK 'CineAsia' bluray Bob. Here's a review of the UK release:

http://www.myreviewer.com/Detective_Dee_Mystery_of_the_Phantom_Flame_Blu-ray_Review/a143001

Thanks man!

[CatNap]

I haven't seen this one yet. Doesn't Carina Lau play the lead?

Laura

[KUNG FU BOB]

You're a man of exquisite taste, Bob!

That's what they tell me... LOL

many, maybe even most of yall fandomers, never fail to praise the knife duel. i fail to feel its magic. it sure aint bad, but ie donnie`s knife fight in (i believe it was) return of chen zhen is considerably more fun to watch. nothing`s bad about SPL, i need to stress that i really dig the flick (whereas "flashpoint" imo is totally overhyped by the likes of us fanboys- choreo+action: ace!!! screenplay: suckage.

i actually do not wanna revisit it ever again. for the great action, i sure wont be able to help it tho. in time.

I hear you man. Interesting. I do enjoy the knife bit in CHEN ZHEN as well, but not more than SPL.

Though FLASH POINT is not a strong film aside from it's action, I don't find it so terrible. I liked that the bad guys had a bit of character to them. Tastes among us fans certainly do differ my friend. LOL

PS: SPL was part of a movie night in my cozy lil private home theater once. to my surprise, it hadnt won a single one of my friends over (4 or 5 guys, some quite the hk action/fantasy/thriller cinema aficionados, the rest of em at least familiar with some good hk output thx to me)

Funny- I showed this to about 8 people myself, and none of them were as excited by it as me.

NOTHING can be done in favour of this snoozer that is "the duelist". "misguided" fits the bill perfectly.

After seeing the director's NOWHERE TO HIDE- which is a very visually lush film, but also a great study of the main characters- I was so psyched to see his "new film" THE DUELISTS on the big screen (especially with the director in attendance). But I thought it blew. Especially the marketplace chase scene that was played like an American football game parody! Big thumb's down. I politely excused myself before he did his post-screening Q&A and told him "I loved NOWHERE TO HIDE" as I left. If you don't have anything nice to say, then don't say anything at all seemed perfect for that moment.

[CatNap]

I saw this film recently having bought it via YesAsia. I thought it was fantastic but I was confused by the relationship between the empress and her servant. At one point, the servant is mortally wounded and the empresses rushes to her and holds her and commands the soldiers to step back so they can speak privately. She's asked about whether she had a great love and was it worth it (the sacrifice). Who was the empresses referring to as the love of her life? Lau's character? Why was she so saddened by the servant's passing - she was just a servant to the empresses after all. Thank you.

[massa_yoda]

I saw this film recently having bought it via YesAsia. I thought it was fantastic but I was confused by the relationship between the empress and her servant. At one point, the servant is mortally wounded and the empresses rushes to her and holds her and commands the soldiers to step back so they can speak privately. She's asked about whether she had a great love and was it worth it (the sacrifice). Who was the empresses referring to as the love of her life? Lau's character? Why was she so saddened by the servant's passing - she was just a servant to the empresses after all. Thank you.

The Empress has to put on a face that is very guarded and distant, but her and the servant have a deep relationship that you get small glimpses at. The scene when Dee leaves the Empress and the servant (sorry, forget her name) to interrupt the Chaplin's sabbatical, they exchange looks at each other that implies a respect and understanding that goes deeper than just an Empress/servant relationship. These two have grown close over time I think.

As far as the love that was worth sacrificing...i think she was referring to that general that opposed her, the one that got the arrow in the head. Could be way off though.

[CatNap]

The Empress has to put on a face that is very guarded and distant, but her and the servant have a deep relationship that you get small glimpses at. The scene when Dee leaves the Empress and the servant (sorry, forget her name) to interrupt the Chaplin's sabbatical, they exchange looks at each other that implies a respect and understanding that goes deeper than just an Empress/servant relationship. These two have grown close over time I think.

As far as the love that was worth sacrificing...i think she was referring to that general that opposed her, the one that got the arrow in the head. Could be way off though.

At first I thought the Empress and the servant had the relationship; when she was asked if the sacrifice was worth it, the implication seemingly appeared to be "Despite what I feel for you, I'll sacrifice even this for the throne." I just couldn't tell if it was between them or another. There didn't seem to be much clarification - the relationship between ruler and servant, where the Empress' heart really lied, or whether she trusted Detective Dee or not. Still, I really enjoyed the film and it's nice to see Tsui Hawk return to the big screen.

[Morgoth Bauglir]

Bored out of my mind with this. The action was the best part I guess but the action sucked. I'm beginning to wonder if I'm going to enjoy a new wuxia movie ever again.

[Iron_Leopard]

Not a bad movie at all. But like most of Harks work I found it pretty average. I actually prefer Seven Swords.

[Iron_Leopard]

On 10/23/2012 at 5:34 PM, Morgoth Bauglir said:

Bored out of my mind with this. The action was the best part I guess but the action sucked. I'm beginning to wonder if I'm going to enjoy a new wuxia movie ever again.

9 years since this post. Did you ever find one to enjoy?