My Many MiniReviews

[ShaOW!linDude]

Very enjoyable reviews brother!

Have to point out a couple of things though...For instance, after Chiba-san tears that guy's arm off, he actually beats another guy with it! The film is still far from good though, even in it's unaltered form. I believe when I first wrote about it, I said something along the lines of "the cinematography looks like it was filmed by someone in the midst of an epileptic seizure." So even seen uncut, it's still not a classic.

It doesn't sound like it has any redeemable qualities in either version. Shame. There was such potential.

Now the strange thing is, a lot of the things I love about the film are only in the US version! The ridiculous "intro" with Aaron Banks and Bill Louie is pure Grindhouse perfection. "I think Bruce would do it somethin' like this here." Priceless stuff. Also, the famous Ezekiel 25:17 quote is only in the Americanized version, and I love it. This is the same speech that Samuel L. Jackson's character Jules recites before killing people in PULP FICTION, which Tarantino definitely lifted it from THE BODYGUARD.

Ah, now this is interesting. I thought I recognized the quote as the same used in Pulp Fiction but didn't know Tarantino got his idea for it from the Chiba flick. For the U.S. version, the Banks & Louie intro is the best part of the film.

If you want to see him at his best, I recommend THE KILLING MACHINE (1975, Japan, aka. Shaolin Martial Arts) and THE STREET FIGHTER (1974, Japan, aka. Attack! Iron Fist).

Oh, I've dipped into these wells many times, brother Bob! These, and Soul of Chiba, are the standards by which I judge other Chiba films as well as martial art movies of the same era.

I highly recommend these Miike films for you ShaOW!linDude (specifically leaving out some popular titles that I don't think you would enjoy) if you want to see good ones:

AUDITION (1999, Japan, aka. Odishon)

DEAD OR ALIVE (1999, Japan, aka. Dead Or Alive: Hanzaisha; D.O.A.)

FUDOH: THE NEW GENERATION (1996, Japan, aka. Record of a Gang War: Fudoh)

GRAVEYARD OF HONOR (2002, Japan, aka. New Graveyard of Honor)

Thanks for the recommendations. I'll keep these and MB's suggestion of Deadly Outlaw Rekka (which I think I remember hearing really good things about) in mind along with those listed by OAB.

GHw: to answer your question, apparently it's the same film.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0235198/?ref_=nv_sr_1

[KUNG FU BOB]

Kung fu bob I'm gonna have to stick my foot in here and recommend Deadly Outlaw Rekka as the best miike movie. Rock and roll.

Yes sir, that's a good one! I love that song they play during the climax.

Interesting stuff on bodyguard. I had forgotten all about that movie. Reading about it was much more interesting than watching it.

Since KFB brings it up: I've heard of a Japanese film called Audition where a guy who lost his wife hosted a "casting" in order to find a new girlfriend. And the one he got was a psycho who doesn't tolerate her man to like anything but her. That chick also uses some drug on guys that alters their nervous system (they can still feel but can't react) and torture them.

Is it Miike's film or a different one ?

That's the Miike film. Shame you already know almost the whole plot though. It kind of ruins it.

It doesn't sound like it has any redeemable qualities in either version. Shame. There was such potential.

Hmmm... well, both the Japanese and the US theatrical posters were cool. LOL But I guess aside from that... Yeah, not very good.

These, and Soul of Chiba, are the standards by which I judge other Chiba films as well as martial art movies of the same era.

[Secret Executioner]

Thanks for the confirmation, brother KFB. It's not really a problem as I don't mind spoilers - the way the plot is executed is IMO about as important.

[One Armed Boxer]

*** SPOILERS ***

Since KFB brings it up: I've heard of a Japanese film called Audition where a guy who lost his wife hosted a "casting" in order to find a new girlfriend. And the one he got was a psycho who doesn't tolerate her man to like anything but her. That chick also uses some drug on guys that alters their nervous system (they can still feel but can't react) and torture them.

Is it Miike's film or a different one ?

That's the Miike film. Shame you already know almost the whole plot though. It kind of ruins it.

Thanks for the confirmation, brother KFB. It's not really a problem as I don't mind spoilers - the way the plot is executed is IMO about as important.

Hey GHW, I've put a 'Spoliers' warning on the top of your post. While that's great that you don't mind them yourself, it's worth being considerate to other members who may not have seen the movie and want to go in blind. In your post you've essentially explained the whole plot from beginning to end, and with 'Audition' a major part of the enjoyment comes from not knowing what's going to happen. I realise no harm was intended, it's just something to be mindful of in future.

For the record, 'Audition' was the movie that got me into Asian horror, way back when I saw it in the cinema back in '99 as an innocent 18 year old.

[Takuma]

Also, I think Chiba's character comes out as a bigger asshole in the Japanese cut. In the US version he's fighting criminality, but in the Japanese version he's just interested in promoting karate. The new ending he even states that the whole adventure was great advertisement for karate (never mind he brutally killed like 30 guys and witnessed many others being murdered )

I agree the sequel is more interesting in many ways. The opening scene is especially important: Etsuko Shihomi's first movie role (at the age of 16), the first Chiba vs. Masashi Ishibashi fight, and no shaky cam. It was a few months later that Enter the Dragon really started the new martial arts film boom in Japan (The Street Fighter was Toei's response to Lee's success), but Chiba very much had the pack together already in Bodyguard Kiba 2. Of course Chiba had been in martial arts movies since the early 1960's, but I think it was the combination of great demand (initiated by EtD) and Chiba/Ishibashi/Shihomi that started the golden age of Japanese karate mayhem.

Storywise, however, I think the sequel is slightly inferior to the original. Neither one is a great story, but the sequel tends to drag between the beginning and ending, and pretty much misses the opportunity to a ninkyo-style Chiba vs. Tsunehiko Watase storyline... the original was rolling better with its spaghetti western influences.

Karate Bear Fighter is actually a 1975 film. And one of my favourite Chiba films!

[the moose]

I love Miike's work. Allow me to join in here please.

Here are the 5 that stand out as exceptional for me:

Fudoh:The Next Generation

Full Metal Yakuza

Ichi the killer

Visitor Q

Audition

Other greats of his The dead or alive trilogy, Ley lines, Gozu, deadly outlaw rekka.

I suprised myself in not having seen 13 Assassins yet.

[KUNG FU BOB]

The dancer is actually missing from the US version...

Oh yeah, I forgot about that omission.

Also, I think Chiba's character comes out as a bigger asshole in the Japanese cut. In the US version he's fighting criminality, but in the Japanese version he's just interested in promoting karate. The new ending he even states that the whole adventure was great advertisement for karate (never mind he brutally killed like 30 guys and witnessed many others being murdered )

Agreed! The first time I saw the Japanese cut I was shocked that this was what the plot was all about. He thwarted the hijackers on the plane, and decided it would be a great way to promote karate, starting at the press conference where he showed that Coke bottle who's the boss.

I agree the sequel is more interesting in many ways. The opening scene is especially important: Etsuko Shihomi's first movie role (at the age of 16), the first Chiba vs. Masashi Ishibashi fight, and no shaky cam. It was a few months later that Enter the Dragon really started the new martial arts film boom in Japan (The Street Fighter was Toei's response to Lee's success), but Chiba very much had the pack together already in Bodyguard Kiba 2. Of course Chiba had been in martial arts movies since the early 1960's, but I think it was the combination of great demand (initiated by EtD) and Chiba/Ishibashi/Shihomi that started the golden age of Japanese karate mayhem.

Great info Takuma. So glad you post here!

I love the bit where Chiba makes the guy pour him a beer, then strikes him down. Classic!

Storywise, however, I think the sequel is slightly inferior to the original. Neither one is a great story, but the sequel tends to drag between the beginning and ending, and pretty much misses the opportunity to a ninkyo-style Chiba vs. Tsunehiko Watase storyline... the original was rolling better with its spaghetti western influences.

You would know better than me. I only watched it once all the way through, as I don't speak Japanese and it's not subbed. I only watch it now for the action scenes which I fast-forward to. Hopefully one day we'll get to see it released on Japanese DVD (I'd buy it right up!) and someone will fan-sub it (and I'll snag that right up too!).

Karate Bear Fighter is actually a 1975 film. And one of my favourite Chiba films!

Thanks for the correction- I've fixed it in my file. I love it too! In fact, the Japanese theatrical poster hangs right here next to my computer. Choke that bear Sonny!

I love Miike's work. Allow me to join in here please.

Here are the 5 that stand out as exceptional for me:

Fudoh:The Next Generation

Full Metal Yakuza

Ichi the killer

Visitor Q

Audition

Other greats of his The dead or alive trilogy, Ley lines, Gozu, deadly outlaw rekka.

I suprised myself in not having seen 13 Assassins yet.

Moose- those are closer to my favorite Miike films too. But I was making suggestions based on what I know of our friend ShaOW!linDude's taste in films. I'd be willing to bet that VISITOR Q is not his kind of movie (nor most people's ). I found it to be extremely disturbing, but also very powerful and thought-provoking. Just lately I have been thinking of revisiting it again after last seeing it 13 years ago. My son recently watched ICHI THE KILLER for the first time, and was perusing my "The Films of Miike Takashi" movie section when the title VISITOR Q caught his eye. He asked "What's it about?" I said "It's a family drama... that crosses just about every line a family drama can cross."

[ShaOW!linDude]

The dancer is actually missing from the US version... perhaps because the scene with the black guy in The Street Fighter apparently made US audiences feel a bit uncomfortable

Wow, lots of good info to found here today!

Clarification on this, please. When I watched this the dancer was in there but harassed by a drunken white dude. Chiba's client, Reiko, was later harassed at the same club while dancing by a black dude that Chiba handled rather briefly but roughly.

[the moose]

Moose- those are closer to my favorite Miike films too. But I was making suggestions based on what I know of our friend ShaOW!linDude's taste in films. I'd be willing to bet that VISITOR Q is not his kind of movie (nor most people's ). I found it to be extremely disturbing, but also very powerful and thought-provoking. Just lately I have been thinking of revisiting it again after last seeing it 13 years ago. My son recently watched ICHI THE KILLER for the first time, and was perusing my "The Films of Miike Takashi" movie section when the title VISITOR Q caught his eye. He asked "What's it about?" I said "It's a family drama... that crosses just about every line a family drama can cross."

Indeed Visitor Q is not for everyone. And it is unsettling - but it's also very engaging, and shot in such a way on digital cam to keep your attention. It's not a film I could watch over and over though. Co-incidently, the father of the family (Kenichi Endo - a fine actor) plays the Japanese gangster in the Raid 2 (He's also in deadly outlaw Rekka.) And did you know the movie is a loose remake of the Italian Paolo Pasolini movie Teorema

[KUNG FU BOB]

Co-incidently, the father of the family (Kenichi Endo - a fine actor) plays the Japanese gangster in the Raid 2 (He's also in deadly outlaw Rekka.)

Yes I did.

And did you know the movie is a loose remake of the Italian Paolo Pasolini movie Teorema

No I didn't! I had no idea VISITOR Q was even partially based on another film. But since Paolo Pasolini also directed the notorious SALO (1975), it doesn't surprise me too much.

[Takuma]

Clarification on this, please. When I watched this the dancer was in there but harassed by a drunken white dude. Chiba's client, Reiko, was later harassed at the same club while dancing by a black dude that Chiba handled rather briefly but roughly.

I have to rely on my (notoriously bad) memory on this, but I think the US version is missing the first few minutes of that scene. In the Japanese version we see her entire dance performance, and the audience (including one black dude) seems pretty "excited" to say at least, before trouble begins. In the US version the scene probably starts the moment when the white guy is making trouble.

Hopefully one day we'll get to see it released on Japanese DVD (I'd buy it right up!) and someone will fan-sub it (and I'll snag that right up too!).

Don't hold your breath. Toei stopped releasing catalogue titles a year ago. I emailed them back then and they said it's just temporary, but who knows if they will ever continue. Now we only get new films and a random Blu-Ray of their biggest classics (which are already available on DVD)

I can understand why they stopped, though. Small and over-saturated market. Rental stores were no longer taking their new releases because the shelves were obviously full of similar stuff already... Of course for a fan it's not enough, but a small number of fans don't make a release profitable.

Now the only exciting thing is their monthly VoD releases. Those are all VHS transfers, but at least a small handful of films become available every month.

On the other hand, the Sonny Chiba festival in Tokyo last month was success. A lot of people showed up. I'll write about that more in the future. I've set myself a goal to see 100 Chiba movies. I'm currently at 71.

In fact, the Japanese theatrical poster hangs right here next to my computer. Choke that bear Sonny!

Jealous I have Karate Inferno and The Street Fighter JP posters, though.

[KUNG FU BOB]

I have to rely on my (notoriously bad) memory on this, but I think the US version is missing the first few minutes of that scene. In the Japanese version we see her entire dance performance, and the audience (including one black dude) seems pretty "excited" to say at least, before trouble begins. In the US version the scene probably starts the moment when the white guy is making trouble.

That sounds right (said another guy with a bad memory).

Don't hold your breath. Toei stopped releasing catalogue titles a year ago. I emailed them back then and they said it's just temporary, but who knows if they will ever continue. Now we only get new films and a random Blu-Ray of their biggest classics (which are already available on DVD)

I can understand why they stopped, though. Small and over-saturated market. Rental stores were no longer taking their new releases because the shelves were obviously full of similar stuff already... Of course for a fan it's not enough, but a small number of fans don't make a release profitable.

Now the only exciting thing is their monthly VoD releases. Those are all VHS transfers, but at least a small handful of films become available every month.

Thanks for the info, sad as it may be.

On the other hand, the Sonny Chiba festival in Tokyo last month was success. A lot of people showed up. I'll write about that more in the future. I've set myself a goal to see 100 Chiba movies. I'm currently at 71.

I can't wait to read your report about this.

71? Not bad at all brother!

Jealous I have Karate Inferno and The Street Fighter JP posters, though.

Hmmm... let's see what we can do to amend this situation.

[ShaOW!linDude]

I have to rely on my (notoriously bad) memory on this, but I think the US version is missing the first few minutes of that scene. In the Japanese version we see her entire dance performance, and the audience (including one black dude) seems pretty "excited" to say at least, before trouble begins. In the US version the scene probably starts the moment when the white guy is making trouble.

The dance performance lasted a while. There may have been a black dude ogling her, but the drunk white dude was dancing around, too, for a bit before he started harassing her.

Honestly I'm having trouble recalling it all myself. Oh, well. I'm not about to sit through it again.

[KUNG FU BOB]

ShaOW!linDude your reviews spark great conversations!

And have you noticed the post count in this thread? Wow, that's something man.

Looking forward to your next one.

[ShaOW!linDude]

ShaOW!linDude your reviews spark great conversations!

And have you noticed the post count in this thread? Wow, that's something man.

Looking forward to your next one.

Thank you, sir. And I'm inching towards 100,000 views. Maybe my thread wiill get a sticky.

[ShaOW!linDude]

Okay, here's...

TEKKEN 2: KAZUYA'S REVENGE (2014) Running time: 88 mins.

Stars: Kane Kosugi, Cary Hiroyuki Tagawa, Rade Sherbedgia, Gary Daniels, Kelly Wenham, Paige Lindquist

Stunt Coordinator: Brahim Achabbakhe

Dir.: Wych Kaos

Synopsis

Kazuya (KK) is an amnesiac who is taken in by a group led by the Minister (RB) and forced to work as an assassin. An encounter with Bryan Fury (GD) leads to find the truth of who he is and how he has been used by his manipulative Heihachi Mishima (CHT).

Fight #1 --- Kazuya vs tactical squad

It's decent though there's nothing really spectacular. It's a fight on the run. Seems a little stilted at times as though the flow of action is a little off. There are a couple of nice takedowns and a good side kick.

Fight #2 --- Kazuya vs 2 opponents w/sword and knife

Hmm. Okay, there are certainly some issues with the editing here, however, the choreography is pretty good. Standout moves: jump-spinning back kick into a spinning back kick; a sweet arm lock that segues into a chop to the throat followed by a roundhouse kick; and a leaping axe kick.

Fight #3 --- Kazuya vs 2 trainees

Very short. Some good choreography, but there are cropping issues with the way it's filmed. Nice scissor-leg takedown and a jump-spinning back kick that should've been kept wide-angle, but the impact is good.

Fight #4 --- Kazuya vs opponent

Good fight! There are lots of exchanges here though sometimes it seems a bit stiff, but KK shows moments of blinding speed when delivering combo's. Sweet triple kick finishing move.

Fight #5 --- Kazuya vs Bryan Fury (GD)

Good fight!...though marred by cropping issues at times. There's a good deal of slo-mo, too, that's uncalled for. While this would've benefited by longer played exchanges, the choreography isn't without its merits. Some good kicks; good impacts; and it's not one-sided. It's a high point and it's good, but it could've been jaw-droppingly awesome.

Fight #6 --- Kazuya vs Rip (Brahim Achabbakhe) and Thorn (Ron Smoorenburg)

Best fight!!! Lots of slo-mo. Not saying that's a bad thing, but it should've been used a little more discriminately. The cropping is better here, and I like the stark setting. The fight runs for a while, too. Intricate choreography; great impact; killer combo's; and awesome kicks, especially KK's use of the "Guyver" kick.

The thing I didn't like about this movie is that the plot drags. Maybe I'm just tired. Hmm, no. The plot definitely drags.

Oh, yeah. One thing I noticed. On Kazuya's 1st assassination mission, he goes to kill this dude. There are 2 times this character gets a full screen treatment. I'd swear this is none other than Yuen Biao in an uncredited cameo. If it's not, it's his doppelganger. Maybe someone else knows or can find out.

Many are upset with the lack of game characters that the film is based on. Understandable. Wish there had been more of them myself. But I can live with that. That's not what I really want to see.

I want to see Kane Kosugi starring in more action films. I think he has the acting chops (hah!) to be a leading man, and he certainly has the martial skills to back up his becoming a major action star. This was a project towards that end. I can't say it was the best endeavor, but that's not completely his fault. I think he held up his end for this role.

I'm here for the fights, people. Again, not the best I've ever seen, but it is not without moments of coolness, and I think it still smokes a lot of what I've seen of late. I attribute that to both KK and BA, who served as choreographer. (Look out Larnel Stovall. This guy's got a future.) I think the choreography and its performance were on the ball for the most part. Sure, there were times it seemed a tad off, but what really did a disservice to it was the way it was cropped or framed. There were also a few editing issues, but mainly it was the way the fights were sometimes framed that undermined it at times.

I've read the thread for this film. I know many who have seen it are utterly disappointed in it. While it's not all I'd hoped for, I didn't find it as bad as all that. But that's me. And I want more Kane Kosugi dusting people off on my tv. And this is left open for a sequel. I hope they make it...but it's doubtful.

My recommendation? I say GET IT! However, if you're shy about that, that's cool. At least watch it at some point before you drop your dollars on it. See it for yourself.

[AlbertV]

Great review!!! We both agreed that Kazuya vs. Rip and Thorn was the best fight of the film. If one can get past the Tekken references, they may just like the film.

[Takuma]

I have to rely on my (notoriously bad) memory on this, but I think the US version is missing the first few minutes of that scene. In the Japanese version we see her entire dance performance, and the audience (including one black dude) seems pretty "excited" to say at least, before trouble begins. In the US version the scene probably starts the moment when the white guy is making trouble.

That sounds right (said another guy with a bad memory).

The dance performance lasted a while. There may have been a black dude ogling her, but the drunk white dude was dancing around, too, for a bit before he started harassing her.

Honestly I'm having trouble recalling it all myself. Oh, well. I'm not about to sit through it again.

ok, I did a bit more research on this and it turns out I was right. And you were right, too! Bob also

I found two different English dubbed versions of the film in youtube. One is a fullscreen print missing the dancer, the other is a widescreen print with her in it! But then, I also managed to find another fullscreen print in dailymotion, and that one has her in it!

The youtube version without her is optically censored for boobs anyway... I wonder of the uploader also cut that scene from the film? Or is this (except for the censoring) an official alternative edit of the film?

[Secret Executioner]

Guess Kazuya's Revenge isn't THAT bad after all. I think I'll get it whenever it comes out/I come across it.

[blue_skies]

Thank you, sir. And I'm inching towards 100,000 views. Maybe my thread wiill get a sticky.

http://www.kungfucinema.com/forums/showthread.php?t=14082

My thread has 113,000 views

[ShaOW!linDude]

Okay, this was available at Walmart. I read up on the reviews of it at Amazon. Decided to chance it.

NINJA APOCALYPSE (2014) Running time: 83 mins.

Stars: Christian Oliver, Les Brandt, Isaac Singleton, Jr., Kaiwi Lyman-Mersereau, West Liang, Tara Macken, Antionette Kalaj, Ernie Reyes, Jr., Cary-Hiroyuki Tagawa

Fight Coordinator: Matt Berberi

Fight Choreographer: Kim Do Nguyen

Dir.: Lloyd Lee Barnett

Synopsis

In a post apocalyptic world, clans of ninja have separated themselves into territories. Grandmaster Fumitaka (C-HT) calls representatives of each clan in to put a temporary halt to the fighting amongst them. The leader of the Lost Clan, Cage (CO), brings along 4 other warriors with him: Surge (LB), Trillion KL-M), Mar , and Sky (IS,Jr). The meet is at an old nuclear bunker. There an assassination takes place, and the Lost Clan is blamed. Sent 1,000 feet below ground where the lower floors are inhabited by mutated zombies, they must battle their way back to the top, and learn who is truly responsible.

Fight #1 --- 3 scouts vs 2 ninja and Fumitaka

Short. There's a little bit of sword play, a spinning crescent kick, and some f/x. It's kind of interesting.

Fight #2 --- Lost Clan vs other clans

Meh. Starts off okay. A few kicks here and there, and a little sword play in places. Turns into a "run for your life" segment with a smattering of action tossed in.

Fight #3 --- Cage, Mar, Trillion vs ninja

Takes place as the group splits up to explore the bunker so there's 3 different fight scenes spliced together. It's not bad. They actually get progressively better. The sword play improves as does the fight choreography which gets intricate at times. Some good kicks in places. The standout to me was TM. She has some skills. She should be used in more stuff. KLM's fights take place in stairwells. Initially the choreography looked at little weak at times, but it got better and a bit bloody. CO's fights were sort of dark, hard to tell. He does pull off a nice finishing move.

Fight #4 --- Lost Clan vs South Clan

Meh. This is more of a f/x showcase with a little action tossed in. Trillion and Surge (LB) take on some ninja. Sword play, hand to hand, and a little tonfa action. It's okay.

Fight #5 --- Lost Clan vs mutated zombies

This is nothing but a bunch of hack and slash here.

Fight #6 --- Cage & Surge vs the Sirens

This ain't bad. 3 seductive brunettes? Unfortunately only 1 of them can really fight, but she gets to show a little skill. The others were obviously doubled. Was hoping for something reminiscent of Jackie Chan vs the Amazons in "Armor of God" but that didn't happen.

Fight #7 --- Cage vs Becker (WL)

Good fight but short. Couple of nice exchanges and a sweet finishing move.

Fight #8 --- Cage vs Hiroshi (ER,Jr)

It's a good fight...so to speak. Sword play mostly, some acrobatics, some f/x. No hand to hand, which was super-disappointing. You know what? This wasn't a good fight at all.

***SPOILERS!!!!!*****

Okay, this film is a mess. Nothing is fully explained. The characters are boring as all get out with the exception of Sky played by IS,Jr. Sky is deaf and dumb so all communication with him must be acted out. His is the standout performance as far as that goes.

The zombies were lame, except that they were mutant zombies. So if you cut 1 in half, each end regenerates, and now you've got 2. That's kind of neat. But these are some lousy looking zombies.

The dialogue is atrocious. There's no humor. Everything out of the main character's mouth is either an encouraging demand ("Stick to the Code!" / "We follow the Code!" / "The Code is what matters!") or a sappy assurance ("You're going to make it out of here." / "You and I are going to make it back." / "We'll make it out.") Um, needless to say, they don't all make it back. Probably because they didn't follow the Code (whatever that was since it wasn't explained!).

The fights. Ah, the fights. ARRRGH! So they started off kind of sucky, but then it started to build a little bit. Okay, cool, we're seeing the characters' skill sets. And we've got Ernie Reyes, Jr. for the end fight. This'll be sweet....NOT!!!! How can you not give him a chance to really throwdown? Huh? No, you have something akin to a lame light saber battle. For real. These guys channel energy into their swords. (Like that's never been done before.) And there's so much potential among the cast. Some of these guys are decent screen fighters, but I guess the choreographer didn't have a whole lot of ideas, or he was afraid to create longer set pieces. Look, man. It's a ninja movie...supposedly. Let's see some freakin' ninjitsu and some other martial arts on display. Come on!

Oh, in the end credits, Alvin Hsing of the Stunt People is listed as playing Horace...whoever that was. Again, a good screen fighter completely underutilized.

Oooh, and another is Aidan Austin listed as, and I kid you not, "a ninja not appearing in this picture". Um, okay. Good to know.

SIGH. Dadgummit. (mumble, mumble, freakin' waste of $10, mutter, mutter)

So, I don't know. Maybe this movie could serve as a drinking game, but I really don't want to advocate that because I don't drink.

Anyhow, this is your call. If you decide to get it, wait until it's in the $5 bin or get a used copy cheap. Mine's going in the trade pile.

[One Armed Boxer]

Thank you, sir. And I'm inching towards 100,000 views. Maybe my thread wiill get a sticky.

No longer a maybe, consider it done!

[ShaOW!linDude]

No longer a maybe, consider it done!

Aw, dude! Dig you!!!! Cool beans! Thank you much!

Just for that...

TOM YUM GOONG 2/THE PROTECTOR 2 (2013) Running time: 105 mins.

Stars: Tony Jaa, RZA, Phettai Wongkumlao, Jija Yanin, Marrese Crump, Rhatha Phongam, Kazu Patrick Tang, Gun Hongrattanaporn, David Ismalone, Theerada Kittisiriprasert

Martial Arts Supervisor: Panna Rittikrai

Martial Arts Choreographer & Director: Weerapon Phumatfon, Somjai Janmoontree

Dir: Prachya Pinkaew

Synopsis

Kham (TJ) has his elephant stolen...again.

***There will be SPOILERS!!!***

Fight #1 --- Kham vs Ping Ping (JY) & Sue Sue (TK)

A very short skirmish. Nice choreography, what there is of it. Jaa mainly blocks and dodges.

Fight #2 --- #20 (RP) vs #31

Meh. A chick in a funky red get-up (S&M-ish maybe?) and high heels fights some dude. Lots of editing here. This is an attempt to make her appear deadly. It fails. She never really fights again in the film except for a lackluster move or two later.

Fight #3 --- The Chase

Part A --- Kham vs motorcyclists on rooftops

This is stunt driven. Some of it works, some of it doesn't, but when it does, it's pretty cool. Lots of wire-assisted stunts. There's some nice kicks to be found, but really not much choreography per se.

Part B --- On the streets and bridge

This is all very stunt driven...literally. It's a big car chase sequence, and there's some crazy driving in places. The bit with the fuel tanker semi is sort of neat but very over the top. The bridge stunt is...well, I ain't buying it.

Fight #4 --- The Shipyard

Part A --- Kham, vs Ping Ping & Sue Sue vs parkour fighters (including KPT)

Now this I like!!! I wish there had been more of this than the car chase. Unfortunately, it's not very long. However, the choreography is good, and the logistics of it must have been brain-wracking to figure out. KPT pulls off a sweet kick as does JY (a sort of butterfly kick maneuver), but there's nothing really special from Jaa.

Part B --- Kham & Ping Ping vs #2 (MC)

Best fight!!! Crump is a beast!!!! Great exchanges here with fast, hard-hitting choreography! Jaa still doesn't showcase much here, but he does get in a few good licks. JY just takes a beating. There's a couple of really good kicks from both Jaa and Crump.

Fight #5 --- Kham vs bodyguards

Short! Too short!...but this is the Jaa I want to see in action! It's like it was building up, and suddenly it's over. There's 1 particular knee strike that is just beautiful.

Fight #6 --- Kham & Ping Ping vs #2 and parkour squad

Part A --- Kham vs thugs

Sweet! This is very reminiscent of moments in the first TYG. Jaa is just brutal in his delivery! Great technique and impact! Love this!!!

Part B --- Ping Ping vs #2 & Kham vs parkour squad

The JY/MC fight is a bit meh. It has its moments, but essentially he owns her in this. Jaa's fight w/parkour squad is better. This takes place in an area of the building that been set ablaze, and soon everyone is wielding flaming feet of fury. This is cool! (Pun!)...sort of. It's a 3-on-1 and sometimes the choreography works, other times it doesn't. There's some nice kicks throughout, but it ends kind of lame.

Part C --- Kham vs #2 (upper building)

Starts off great! As it continues, there are some editing issues that flub up the choreography for me. (Starts a move from one angle, finishes it from a different angle, and you can tell the finish doesn't fit the start. Hmm.) Still, it's fast and hard-hitting with good techniques and some devastating knee strikes.

Part D --- Kham vs #2 (subway tunnel)

First, Jaa deals with 3 thugs. There's a heavy use of wire-assistance here that is more "What the ...?" than "Wow!" When MC shows up again (What is this guy? The Terminator?), it's a mix of fight choreography and wire-assisted stunts. Ugh! It's meant to be dramatic, but it's not. The finishing move is mind-blowing, not due to its ingenuity, but its absurdity.

Fight #7 --- Kham vs LC (RZA)

Um...okay. What is this? I'll tell you what it is: AWFUL!!! It's Jaa taking a beating. Oh, he gets knocked through concrete walls...twice. (This would've been cooler if MC was delivering it, and more realistic, too.) Jaa rallies, but it's nothing special.

Fight #8 --- Kham & Ping Ping vs LC & #2

Okay, this is just stupid!!!! Jaa clings to his elephant and takes yet another beating while JY saves his butt. The finale is astoundingly asinine with the exception of JY's finishing move on MC which is reminiscent of something in Jaa's 1st film.

Look, I love Tony Jaa, and I've already heard about how disappointing this movie is from other forum members. Still, I gave it the benefit of the doubt. I've watched it 3x's now. The more I've seen it, the more I've gleaned from it as far as some neat moves in the choreography. I want so bad to like this....but I can't. I just can't. Dadgummit.

The premise is a retread, and I don't care. If it serves as motivation for Jaa to kick the snot out of folks, it works for me.

Here's the problems as I see them:

1) The choreography isn't consistent. Oh, it's there, and some of it is really good, but it doesn't maintain a level of consistency to keep you engaged. As a matter of fact, it just gets lame near the end. Too much editing with obvious gaffes in the continuity of the choreography. Also, what I saw happening was certain bits from Ong Bak (certain kicks, fighting with feet on fire) and TomYum Goong/The Protector (1 hit takedowns similar to that of the security guard fight) that were reused to some degree. The rooftop segment was similar to that of TYG's warehouse battle with the X-Gamers. It tried to be crazier, but failed. Another thing is that Jaa's trademark agility was not on display. Oh, you see it here and there, but again it's rare. Instead you get Tony Jaa doing wire-work. What are you thinking? The worst offense is that what I consider to be the best fight is at the beginning of the film, not the end. That is not good.

2) The movie was filmed for 3D. This is why it is so stunt driven with gimmicks thrown into the choreography. It is so blatant and annoying! And it doesn't look good! It looks fake as all get out! Why did they think this was a good idea? Maybe on paper. But how could they look at it in editing and not say, "Um, guys, we have a problem." "What's the problem?" "Well, look at it. This sux!"

3) The RZA. I don't even know what to say here. Okay, so put him in it as a 2nd tier character, but not as the main villain. Oh, you want him to fight Jaa? Do that first, and get it out of the way. Don't save that for the end fight! (He did get a nice dig at Jaa in his dialogue about how disappointed he was over the last 5 yrs. That was good for a chuckle.) This is a major piece of poor casting. They should've brought back the tranny chick/dude from the first TYG. She/He was scary and a good villainess/villain. (Not sure what pronouns to go with there.)

4) The recent films of Donnie Yen and Iko Uwais have set a new standard. This didn't even aspire to that. It was like, "How far out there can we get? Oh, we can go farther than that!"

The saving graces:

1) It was nice to actually see Jaa finally back in action. Not the best action we've seen from him, but he still blows most folks away. For me, anyway.

2) Marrese Crump. This dude is scary awesome. Let's get him some more roles. I don't care if he's the hero or villain. He's got the chops. Let's start banking him some screen fights. Adkins vs Crump, anyone? Yeah. I'm salivating at the thought of that, too.

My advice? It's your call. Really. I wish I could say "Y'all go get this!" But I can't. I do think you should see it. It has its moments. Just know what you're getting into. I'd suggest renting it or catching it on Netflix.

Now, anyone up for a viewing of Ong Bak 3? I certainly am.

[Lionclaw]

I'd take Ong Bak 3 over The Protector 2 any day. I would never imagine Jaa would make a film that makes Ong Bak 3 look good but he did it. I tried so bad to like this but it gets worse with every viewing. *Prays for SPL 2 to be good.*

[KUNG FU BOB]

Aw, dude! Dig you!!!! Cool beans! Thank you much!

Well deserved!

[TOM YUM GOONG 2/THE PROTECTOR 2 (2013)...

Look, I love Tony Jaa, and I've already heard about how disappointing this movie is from other forum members. Still, I gave it the benefit of the doubt. I've watched it 3x's now. The more I've seen it, the more I've gleaned from it as far as some neat moves in the choreography. I want so bad to like this....but I can't. I just can't. Dadgummit.

The premise is a retread, and I don't care. If it serves as motivation for Jaa to kick the snot out of folks, it works for me.

My advice? It's your call. Really. I wish I could say "Y'all go get this!" But I can't. I do think you should see it. It has its moments. Just know what you're getting into. I'd suggest renting it or catching it on Netflix.

Your best, most on-the-mark review for me yet. Excellent.

You put into words what I couldn't. Basically because of some of the elements, it's a must-see, albeit, one that viewers should be prepared to be let down by. It, like the film itself, seems like one big contradiction. Here we have the "Guy Who Needs No Wires"... on wires.

When I was watching the film the first time I kept thinking that there was a seeming spontaneity that Jaa had brought to his action in his other films, that seemed to be missing. As I was watching I was having trouble understanding what the exact nature of the missing element was, because even during certain scenes where the action was fantastic, there was still something... kind of off, or missing. When I watched the Behind The Scenes stuff I think I realized what it was. On top of having to deliver an action performance, remember the choreography, try to avoid getting injured or injuring others, suddenly there was the added pressure of hitting marks in a much more specific way, otherwise the 3D cameras would not capture the shots properly. I think that adding this one more element- which no doubt resulted in tons more NG takes and wear and tear on people already doing an exhausting job- was the thing that killed the life in these scenes. It's just a theory, but I really think this was a major factor in gumming up the works.

Now, anyone up for a viewing of Ong Bak 3? I certainly am.

I'd take Ong Bak 3 over The Protector 2 any day. I would never imagine Jaa would make a film that makes Ong Bak 3 look good but he did it. I tried so bad to like this but it gets worse with every viewing. *Prays for SPL 2 to be good.*

I'm in the minority here, but I really enjoy ONG-BAK 3. It's certainly not his best, but it's filled with cool shit!