The Man With the Iron Fists (2012) The RZA

[Drunken Monk]

I will watch it and buy the dvd when it come out

Even if it's a giant pile of shit?

[blue_skies]

The acting would have been worse and Jet would have been doubled more than Keanu.

Also, I am not referring to Ben Affleck or Robert Rodriguez making martial arts movies(and have no clue why you read it that way), I am talking about this weird negativity to RZA actually stepping into the director's chair. Longtime actor Charles Laughton directed one movie, NIGHT OF THE HUNTER. It is still regarded as a classic suspense movie. He never directed again, oddly. Clint Eastwood did fine stepping behind the camera(PLAY MISTY FOR ME) as well as John Wayne (THE ALAMO) and Bruce Lee (and I'd argue WAY OF THE DRAGON is better directed than anything by the more experienced Lo Wei or Robert Clouse). Fred Williamson began directing after a few years of acting(results varied). RZA need not be a major actor or composer to make a good or great directorial debut. Sure, he might do a lousy enough job to be another Stephen King, but I'll just wait and see.

Better RZA than a James McTeague, who claims to have grown up on Shaw Bros. and Kurosawa, but directs like any other music video hack. NINJA ASSASSIN displays no love, inspiration or affection for the martial arts genre. And I remember it having its fair share of fans on the board. You may remember different. ONG BAK 1 & 2 have fans, and both are fairly bad. I don't take the majority opinion on this board as gospel. We've now got some new jack resurgence claiming Bruce Lee's fights were awful and Jackie Chan made nothing but awful movies, but like HAPKIDO is a masterpiece, duuuuudde!.

Whatever the result of this flick, it is better than nothing. Martial Arts are a DEAD genre. No new stars, no visionary filmmakers taking it to the next level. Nada. Stick a fork in it. RZA can really do no damage if it sucks because the genre is dead. If all else fails, at least Robert Tai will make some good money.

Hell, where are rules that you have to be some film school grunt to direct a movie? Most of the classic directors didn't go to school, they came from other professions, learned on the set and likely scoffed at the concept of film school. As creatively bankrupt and boring Hollywood's output has been for the last few decades, I'm glad to see some money gambled on new talent. Need some fresh ideas (even if retro-influenced) to get me back in the multiplex. Quite frankly, the generations of USC students taking over the business is what killed movies, quality-wise.

What I'm saying is there is the difference between a first-time director and taking the lead in a drama than there is in doing the same in a martial-arts film. And let's be clear RZA isn't even a proven leading man, proven to have good enough skills in martial-arts, nor at director level. Sure it's possible that he could prove me wrong (I would love to be wrong) but there are a helluva lot of challenges ahead of him with a lot of money at stake for a first-time film maker.

I might agree that "whatever the result of this flick, it is better than nothing" if there was literally nothing being made. However martial-arts while not a popular mainstream genre is far from dead. And yes there are new up-and- coming stars, action choreographers and directors trying to take it to the next level, old and new alike. Yimou Zhang, Yuen Woo Ping, Panna Rittkrai, Alpha stunts, Dan Chupong, Tony Jaa, Daniel O'Neill, Iko Uwais, Johnny Yong Bosch, Scott Atkins, Wu Jing, Eric Jacobus , Johnny Nguyen, the girl from chocolate. All of the above are future stars or film-makers trying to make quality martial-arts films. All of them trying to prove themselves and work their way up on a tiny fraction of the budget that RZA has at his disposal.

As for most of the best directors or classic directors they mostly started on small budget productions, made short films, working with less money than RZA will spend on catering. Rza hasn't worked his way up learning on set. He's just a successful musician who gained a chance to become an actor because he was a big-name musician who would bring a bigger audience to whatever he was involved in. Now he's just used his success from the music business to get to make 20 million dollar budget without honing his craft as a film-maker. Given that much money is involved I doubt he's going to have that much creativity you can be sure of that.

Personally I don't believe it's the film students from USC or any other institution that has killed movies creativity. It's the businessman in the film industry that are only interested in money that has killed Hollywood.

There's plenty of creative talent that are far more proven that Hollywood could bankroll. Yet this production hasn't been bankrolled on proven film making creativity and the ability to make a top martial-arts film. It's star names and the fact that even if they make the greatest pile of crap ever they will make their money back. People round the-world will watch this purely on the basis of names like Russell Crowe and Rza .

IF RZA was a real creative film-maker, had faith in his acting and martial-arts ability he could have bankrolled the project from his own back pocket. Rather than waiting for years to bring this project in to fruition .

I wonder seeing as RZA has such a great love for martial-arts movies does that mean he will be performing in intricately choreographed, long sequences and wide shots, with few cuts showcasing the action?

[dionbrother]

Zhang Yimou doesn't understand martial arts as a genre. He makes glossy wuxia romances. Yuen Woo's best work is decades behind him. Panna Rittkrai sucks as a filmmaker. Seriously, its as if scriptwriting and editing barely exist in Thailand. I don't think either he or the bird from CHOCOLATE are striving for quality filmmaking. Jaa got fat. Alpha stunts..honestly, what have they done lately(though I dig their work)? The Nguyen's movies spend more time on the shelf than in release (though I like parts of THE REBEL). I like Scott Adkins, but until he and Florentine are given a real budget and theatrical push, they are limited to DTV cultdom.

Personally I don't believe it's the film students from USC or any other institution that has killed movies creativity. It's the businessman in the film industry that are only interested in money that has killed Hollywood.

Businessmen were running Hollywood in its golden years. Movies made money even during the Depression. The recent generations of filmmakers are spoiled and raised on bad tv and have not worked real jobs or lived lives. Over-hyped youngsters like John Singleton, Kevin Smith and P T Anderson make overpraised movies that only tell me what little real world experience they have or how asinine they are for preaching their lefty politics. Same for Robert Rodriguez, Steven Spielberg (who is so dumb, he hires a playwright that hates the very existence of Israel to write MUNICH) and every idiot that made an anti-Iraq war movie (that have all bombed, and there's more on the way, so much for Hollywood being run by businessmen). Where's the real movies from people who've lived lives, know who the bad guys are and don't think twinks like Matt Damon or Leonardo DiCaprio can pass for a tough guy? Where are the men like Robert Evans, who have a knack for knowing what people want to see? Christ, compare a newspaper spread for movie theaters from the 1970s to what we have today and it will blow your mind at the selection and variety of what you could choose from.

Here, let Colin Geddes help you:

http://spiltpopcorn.blogspot.com/2010/08/which-is-better-now-or-then.html

I'll roll the dice on RZA. Until there's something else to take a chance on.

[blue_skies]

Zhang Yimou doesn't understand martial arts as a genre. He makes glossy wuxia romances. Yuen Woo's best work is decades behind him. Panna Rittkrai sucks as a filmmaker. Seriously, its as if scriptwriting and editing barely exist in Thailand. I don't think either he or the bird from CHOCOLATE are striving for quality filmmaking. Jaa got fat. Alpha stunts..honestly, what have they done lately(though I dig their work)? The Nguyen's movies spend more time on the shelf than in release (though I like parts of THE REBEL). I like Scott Adkins, but until he and Florentine are given a real budget and theatrical push, they are limited to DTV cultdom.

Businessmen were running Hollywood in its golden years. Movies made money even during the Depression. The recent generations of filmmakers are spoiled and raised on bad tv and have not worked real jobs or lived lives. Over-hyped youngsters like John Singleton, Kevin Smith and P T Anderson make overpraised movies that only tell me what little real world experience they have or how asinine they are for preaching their lefty politics. Same for Robert Rodriguez, Steven Spielberg (who is so dumb, he hires a playwright that hates the very existence of Israel to write MUNICH) and every idiot that made an anti-Iraq war movie (that have all bombed, and there's more on the way, so much for Hollywood being run by businessmen). Where's the real movies from people who've lived lives, know who the bad guys are and don't think twinks like Matt Damon or Leonardo DiCaprio can pass for a tough guy? Where are the men like Robert Evans, who have a knack for knowing what people want to see? Christ, compare a newspaper spread for movie theaters from the 1970s to what we have today and it will blow your mind at the selection and variety of what you could choose from.

Here, let Colin Geddes help you:

http://spiltpopcorn.blogspot.com/2010/08/which-is-better-now-or-then.html

I'll roll the dice on RZA. Until there's something else to take a chance on.

I think we have different definitions of what makes a quality martial-arts film. I mentioned Zhang Yimou because it's a visually stunning film with a great cast of actors and a good all-round story. But then on the other side of the coin you have great action directors/choreographers and martial-arts actors that are creating terrific, exciting martial-arts that perhaps don't have a great story or arenot the greatest at acting but are delivering. Panna is a fantastic action director as you can see from the difference in quality between Jijja Yanin in chocolate to her next movie Raging Phoenix which he didn't work on. And to say Jaa got fat seems unfair when the guy was genuinely trying to do something different with Ong Bak 2 and his vision was changed (and from what I've read ultimately destroyed). His next movie could well be awesome!!The Rebel was a terrific effort from Nguyen telling a good story and showcasing some exciting martial-arts.

What have Alpha Stunts done lately? Try Broken Path! Bloody awesome!

You're welcome to your opinion but if I had $20 million to invest in martial-arts movies and the goal was to make a quality martial-arts film I would want some of that talent that I listed in my previous post. However if I didn't care and was only interested in money I would probably back RZA. It's a typical Hollywood decision... It's which would make the most money.

Yes but Robert Evans went into the business to make films originally as an actor and then as a producer before running, was it Paramount? Unlike other executives today and even than he wasn't the norm in Hollywood. Trying to find the best scripts, the best stories and taking chances.

what you don't take into consideration is that while Hollywood doesn't have all the diversity there are so many movies available today from all over the world giving us a so much richer choice. Also while you're looking back with rose-tinted glasses television has come on to create some wonderful dramas that hold their own against the best Hollywood movies.

[The Dragon]

The acting would have been worse and Jet would have been doubled more than Keanu.

Ain't that the truth!

[HyperDrive]

I'm just glad it isn't being called Blingin' Iron Fist Gangstah or something to that extent.

[bearpower]

Even if it's a giant pile of shit?

Whatever the result of this flick, it can't be any bigger pile of shit than Storm Warriors and Kung Fu Pow and a lot of other movie out there now

[sifu iron perm]

Bold of Rza to cast himself as the lead role in a martial arts film and he's not even a martial artist. I would have more respect for this film if he starred a newcomer, or someone who could show the American audience the beauty and brutality of martial arts. I have a feeling this will be some hollywood formula with a dash of help from Hong Kong lol. Rza would probably be screwed if he didn't know Tarantino who has greatly helped Rza out, and he's lucky Tarantino loves the genre.

This is the reason why they got the 20 mil to make this flick..Tarrintino's name will be advertised all oevr.

The genre is dead and i doubt if this will revive it but maybe bring a twinkle or so..

RZA needs to market this all over..if it that goes well then hopefully big retailers will bring out more classics or so for sale..like when the genre made a quick snappy live in check in the 90's..that was cool!

[Rhythm-X]

Sure it's possible that he could prove me wrong (I would love to be wrong) but there are a helluva lot of challenges ahead of him with a lot of money at stake for a first-time film maker

...

Rza hasn't worked his way up learning on set.

...

IF RZA was a real creative film-maker, had faith in his acting and martial-arts ability he could have bankrolled the project from his own back pocket. Rather than waiting for years to bring this project in to fruition .

...

I wonder seeing as RZA has such a great love for martial-arts movies does that mean he will be performing in intricately choreographed, long sequences and wide shots, with few cuts showcasing the action?

IMDB aside, this is RZA's third film as director. After two (as yet unreleased) films he financed out of pocket. The last one had choreography by Shaw vet Robert Tai. (I don't know who choreographed the first one.) RZA was by Quentin Tarantino's side for much of the KILL BILL shoot, trying to learn as much as he could.

I can understand being skeptical about this admittedly odd project, but let's be fair about it.

[Drunken Monk]

To deter somewhat from the debate of whether Rza is going to make a good film or not I created this new thread for actual news about the film.

Rza speaks on what we can expect from the film's choreography...

“I think something that’s missing in some of these film, that loses tension, is sometimes these guys’ll get hit three or four, five or six times and get back up and try to keep fighting,” RZA said. “Bruce Lee once said that he likes his movies where he hits you one time and you’re down. That’s because what’s the use of knowing kung fu if it’s going to take you 20 punches to kill a man? Anybody could do that then. So I’m looking at trying to bring back the exciting impact of a martial art blow. It’s easier said than done of course but that’s my aim, to look at it like ooh, ooh, get a lot of oohs and not a lot of ha ha, ahh.”

“I think there’s a way to do it. I think without revealing my technique, take [the example of] horror movies, like Jason. It’s one stab and that motherfucker’s dead. It’s a buildup to that death but you watch it and that’s your fear. When he does it, you’re like ugh. I think it’s that. I think it’s the impact of the one thing that makes an audience feel that kind of jolt you get when you’re watching these kinds of films.”

[ShaOW!linDude]

I agree with his premise. I think that's one of the things that really separates Bruce Lee's films from the pack. I detest what I refer to as "Patty-Cake Kung Fu" in movies. It lulls me much in the same way the road will hypnotize a person while making a long drive. I don't mind a little interplay to show off a fighter's style or skills but it shouldn't take that many minutes to land a blow. It's really a fine line in the choreography of the depiction of the fight. So, if the RZA can pull this premise off then that's great. Hopefully he'll stay away from crazy wire-work, too.

[dragonfist]

Batista is now confirmed for this film.

More from RZA:

“I would love to bring these worlds together. That’s what I’m striving to do. My budget is not as big as some of these movies, so I’ve got to pull a lot of favors. Another buddy who is on board is Dave Batista, the world wrestling champion who left and now he’s into Strikeforce and he’s going to be doing mixed martial arts. To have him come on as Glass Body, when I talked to him about it, he was like, “I always wanted to be The Toad in ‘Five Deadly Venoms,’” and I said, this isn’t The Toad but the character is very similar, and he said it would be his honor to do it. So to have him and Russell Crowe standing beside each other, two men, real men, is exciting. But I’m looking to make this an international thing that brings both worlds under one umbrella and get out a good piece of art.”

http://www.lordsofpain.net/news/wwe/batista-lands-movie-role-in-the-rza%E2%80%99s-%E2%80%9Ciron-first%E2%80%9D.html

[Morgoth Bauglir]

So "Glass Body" is going to be similar to "The Toad"?

I don't get it. are they opposites?

[VenomsFan]

Interview: Man with the Iron Fist Director, Wu-Tang Impresario RZA - Comingsoon.net

[blue_skies]

To deter somewhat from the debate of whether Rza is going to make a good film or not I created this new thread for actual news about the film.

Why? Other movies have the news posted on the same thread where people are debating a future film. Why should this be given special treatment? I think this thread should be merged with the other one rather than try and hide other forum members comments.

http://www.kungfucinema.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12127

I see someone's trying to hide the other thread moving it onto the general forum from this one

[blue_skies]

OK let's assume you are correct and this is his third film. You have to wonder how bad his first two are to not even be listed on IMDB and hasn't even released them.

this thread should be merged with the other TMWTIF thread

http://www.kungfucinema.com/forums/showthread.php?p=140852&highlight=iron+fist#post140852

also why has this been moved from the modern martial arts forum hiding in general forum?

EDIT: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v7HF4EK6rAI&feature=player_embedded

no wonder he hasn't released them if this trailer is anything to go by!

[Morgoth Bauglir]

I'm very much looking forward to this. I think it deserves a minimum of 7 threads.

[blue_skies]

fair enough but there's no reason for someone to hide the "negative" threads buring them in other parts of the forum!

[Morgoth Bauglir]

There's no hidden threads on this forum.

Here's some random thoughts of mine in no way directed to any forum member here-

If someone wants to rip the director, the movie or Russell Crow that's fine. Go ahead. Post all the negative stuff you want to. Post a thread that says "this fim will be shit and I know it for a fact" I don't care. I welcome Russell Crow with open arms to this genre. Like rza says he's a real man, not some pussy like Keano Reeves. If he sucks then trust me I'll rip him with some foul words you never heard before just like I would aybody else I don't like in movies.

[blue_skies]

Sorry mate I wasn't implying you have done anything to hide the other thread but someone has obviously moved a thread about a martial-arts film from this modern martial-arts forum to the general forum. Just seems a little suspicious to me.

check out this awful trailer for another movie he did...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v7HF4EK6rAI&feature=player_embedded

[Morgoth Bauglir]

Nah don't worry I didn't think you were implying at all I had done something, I was just joking about "hidden threads" lol. And I like that trailer for Golden Phoenix, I may like this genre too much if that's possible:tongue:

[sifu iron perm]

RZA has got an Ex WWE wrestler on board..

RZA: I would love to bring these worlds together. That's what I'm striving to do. My budget is not as big as some of these movies, so I've got to pull a lot of favors. Another buddy who is on board is Dave Batista, the world wrestling champion who left and now he's into Strikeforce and he's going to be doing mixed martial arts. To have him come on as Glass Body, when I talked to him about it, he was like, "I always wanted to be The Toad in 'Five Deadly Venoms,'" and I said, this isn't The Toad but the character is very similar, and he said it would be his honor to do it. So to have him and Russell Crowe standing beside each other, two men, real men, is exciting. But I'm looking to make this an international thing that brings both worlds under one umbrella and get out a good piece of art.

check the whole interview here -

http://www.comingsoon.net/news/movienews.php?id=70474

[QueMuchita]

Sorry mate I wasn't implying you have done anything to hide the other thread but someone has obviously moved a thread about a martial-arts film from this modern martial-arts forum to the general forum. Just seems a little suspicious to me.

check out this awful trailer for another movie he did...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v7HF4EK6rAI&feature=player_embedded

Awful?? Thats bad ass

[AlbertV]

Daniel Wu is making a cameo in the film. He announced it on his official website.

http://www.alivenotdead.com/daniel

[blue_skies]

Nah don't worry I didn't think you were implying at all I had done something, I was just joking about "hidden threads" lol. And I like that trailer for Golden Phoenix, I may like this genre too much if that's possible:tongue:

Interestingly that video has been pulled from you tube. Clearly someone didn't want people watching it! RZA is hiding the evidence!

I'm telling you the more I hear about this movie and the more I learn about RZA's "credentials" the more I think this movie is going to stink to high heaven. This ex wrestler has done nothing but solidify my thoughts.

the hidden thread below....

http://www.kungfucinema.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12127