Member Sandpalm79 Posted September 1, 2010 Member Share Posted September 1, 2010 I have heard a few people say these movies werent that succesful? i think i heard this mainly from bey logan on the five deadly venoms commentary. that is surprising considering we are all still drooling over them over a quarter century later and half the world away. I mean was there a large fan base. was chiang shengs nickname cutie pie etc started in this fanbase? Any info be great! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Markgway Posted September 1, 2010 Share Posted September 1, 2010 The Venoms weren't particularly popular in Hong Kong. They have a greater fanbase in the west (now and then). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Sandpalm79 Posted September 1, 2010 Author Member Share Posted September 1, 2010 The Venoms weren't particularly popular in Hong Kong. They have a greater fanbase in the west (now and then). how were they more popular in america ( if thats what you mean by west) back then? didnt know they screened the movies here until years later with VHS imports etc and airring on TV dubbed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member gorhama Posted September 1, 2010 Member Share Posted September 1, 2010 I've heard stories of many SHAW vets even the likes of Gordon Liu who were shocked to find out how many fans they had in the West compared to their home. So I'm not shocked that the Venoms were and are not as popular in Hong Kong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Markgway Posted September 1, 2010 Share Posted September 1, 2010 how were they more popular in america ( if thats what you mean by west) back then? didnt know they screened the movies here until years later with VHS imports etc and airring on TV dubbed A number of the Venoms movies were released theatrically in the US (eg. Crippled Avengers). But I guess the enduring popularity is down to the TV screenings. Gordon Liu was a lot more popular in Hong Kong than the Venoms. The reason why so many stars are surprised at their overseas fanbase is because Shaws deliberately kept it from them. Guess they were afraid they'd ask for more money or try to leave for pastures new. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Sandpalm79 Posted September 2, 2010 Author Member Share Posted September 2, 2010 A number of the Venoms movies were released theatrically in the US (eg. Crippled Avengers). But I guess the enduring popularity is down to the TV screenings. Gordon Liu was a lot more popular in Hong Kong than the Venoms. The reason why so many stars are surprised at their overseas fanbase is because Shaws deliberately kept it from them. Guess they were afraid they'd ask for more money or try to leave for pastures new. thanks for the info. the reason i find the shaws hiding this info from them so sad, is because do you ever wonder if Chiang Sheng had known how much us fans care about him. ( i think he's seriously a legend) maybe it could have prevented his decline and subsequent death. Its impossible to say. but i always wished he would have known how many people adore him and enjoy his work to this day Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member dionbrother Posted September 2, 2010 Member Share Posted September 2, 2010 I was told MASKED AVENGERS was a big hit in HK and Chinatown cinemas. Too lazy to research it, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Markgway Posted September 2, 2010 Share Posted September 2, 2010 the reason i find the shaws hiding this info from them so sad, is because do you ever wonder if Chiang Sheng had known how much us fans care about him. Sadly, probably not. He was struggling to find work in Taiwan when he died. Chinese cinema is more global these days - the internet provdes immediate feedback and promotion - but when Chiang died he had no way of knowing his value outside his homeland. Liu was shocked, as you say, and he was a much bigger star than Chiang. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Markgway Posted September 2, 2010 Share Posted September 2, 2010 I was told MASKED AVENGERS was a big hit in HK and Chinatown cinemas. Too lazy to research it, though. Actually Masked Avengers was one of their least successful films in Hong Kong... Generally the films played to diminished returns. A few of them could be considered outright flops. Their biggest hit was The Five Venoms - their first - in 1978. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Blood Sword Posted September 2, 2010 Member Share Posted September 2, 2010 but production costs were fairly low so I guess Shaws business persons were happy with venoms. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Iron Boat Posted September 2, 2010 Member Share Posted September 2, 2010 Seems to me the films became more popular after the fact. After its initial release and maybe years later. Imo, Venoms are not that popular in the west. Only cult fans follow and collect their films. They have never been a mainstream success in the West. In reality that's what poplarity is, how strong is interest with general audiences especially when the subject is film sales. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member The Dragon Posted September 2, 2010 Member Share Posted September 2, 2010 ... The reason why so many stars are surprised at their overseas fanbase is because Shaws deliberately kept it from them. Guess they were afraid they'd ask for more money or try to leave for pastures new. YOU'VE HIT THE NAIL ON THE HEAD! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Sandpalm79 Posted September 2, 2010 Author Member Share Posted September 2, 2010 YOU'VE HIT THE NAIL ON THE HEAD! just curious where did you guys hear( or read) of this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member gorhama Posted September 2, 2010 Member Share Posted September 2, 2010 A number of the Venoms movies were released theatrically in the US (eg. Crippled Avengers). But I guess the enduring popularity is down to the TV screenings. Gordon Liu was a lot more popular in Hong Kong than the Venoms. The reason why so many stars are surprised at their overseas fanbase is because Shaws deliberately kept it from them. Guess they were afraid they'd ask for more money or try to leave for pastures new. Very interesting and makes a lot of sense!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Athena Posted September 2, 2010 Member Share Posted September 2, 2010 just curious where did you guys hear( or read) of this? Hey Sandpalm ! In some ways it is sort of "common knowledge" or accepted in general if you study any of the early decades of the HK movie industry. But I believe it is more a combination of the Shaw studio taking advantage the prevalent attitudes & general political setting in HK in the 60,70 & 80s. Aldo run by the British & fairly cosmopolitan/International, you must remember the remarkable Chinese mentality. Chinese politeness & humility are far from what we associate with the words in the West. A Chinese will take to their palace : But talk about it as " My rundown,worthless,embarrassing, trashed out, etc hut ...Will introduce you to his son: A 3 times national wushu champion as: " My worthless, lazy son ". ...His daughter: Miss HK , Graduate of Oxford etc. as "My ugly ,stupid etc.daughter" . When this is the prevalent attitude on self worth It will become standard for the "powers that be " ( Shaw Brothers, Chinese government waiting behind the curtain ,other corporations etc...) to take advantage of this to undermine Western promotions. I just want to point out this is not at all a "Shaw thing " but rater a by-product of the combination/mixing of centuries of Chinese culture with the Communist influence. Well that was today's CHINA 101 ...Class dismissed , Hehe !! Xiexie,Athena ..♥ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member dionbrother Posted September 2, 2010 Member Share Posted September 2, 2010 It is also possible that some films got a different response in Chinatown theaters across the US and Europe than in Hong Kong. Doesn't seem to be any database tallying such numbers. EASTERN CONDORS bombed in HK but did well in some US Chinatowns. I was told it was vice versa for ACES GO PLACES V, as the pro-mainland ending reached Boston's Chinatown after Tiananmen Square. THE KILLER was a bigger hit in the US than in HK. Because prints were often "bicycled" across the country into double features, those numbers would be hard to get. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member BaronK Posted September 2, 2010 Member Share Posted September 2, 2010 Different people did differently in different places. CC, Woo and Kurosawa were all more appreciated abroad then at home. Same for Venoms. When Black Belt theater first started in my area, it was at 8 pm and the movie was 5DV. That was the start for them and for all of the WW, World Northal picture packages to come. CC/Venoms themes/movies are easily digested by western eyes/stomachs. Back then most was seen by the mainstream masses on tv. Theaters were not the best option/accessible to many. Back then, we never heard of Sammo or Biu or those guys. They were not on tv. Jackie was known for Cannonball Runs and Battlecreek Brawl. The Venoms were huge, as was DC, TL, Chuck Norris, John Liu, Bruce Li, and The Master Killer. The Venoms were known across the nation by their nicknames. Lau Kar Fai the same. They shaped our love for martial pictures as we grew up. US, England, France and Germany were big markets for KF and SB as well. Many of the prints some of us were able to see over the years were German or french only prints. Some of them were Venoms pictures. They were indeed big. HK didn't care for the themes that CC used, western audiences loved them. Masked Avengers bombed. It's a top fave here. It's just the way it goes. If given a choice, I'd like to meet Lu Feng any day of the week over Jack or Biu. He and they are some of my biggest influences. I personally am drawn to them more than any other(s) in regard to martial picture performers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Markgway Posted September 2, 2010 Share Posted September 2, 2010 It is also possible that some films got a different response in Chinatown theaters across the US and Europe than in Hong Kong. Very true. Action masterpiece Eastern Condors wasn't a big hit but local audiences LOVED the Lucky Stars comedies. Pretty much the reverse outside Hong Kong/Asia. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Sandpalm79 Posted September 3, 2010 Author Member Share Posted September 3, 2010 Different people did differently in different places. CC, Woo and Kurosawa were all more appreciated abroad then at home. Same for Venoms. When Black Belt theater first started in my area, it was at 8 pm and the movie was 5DV. That was the start for them and for all of the WW, World Northal picture packages to come. CC/Venoms themes/movies are easily digested by western eyes/stomachs. Back then most was seen by the mainstream masses on tv. Theaters were not the best option/accessible to many. Back then, we never heard of Sammo or Biu or those guys. They were not on tv. Jackie was known for Cannonball Runs and Battlecreek Brawl. The Venoms were huge, as was DC, TL, Chuck Norris, John Liu, Bruce Li, and The Master Killer. The Venoms were known across the nation by their nicknames. Lau Kar Fai the same. They shaped our love for martial pictures as we grew up. US, England, France and Germany were big markets for KF and SB as well. Many of the prints some of us were able to see over the years were German or french only prints. Some of them were Venoms pictures. They were indeed big. HK didn't care for the themes that CC used, western audiences loved them. Masked Avengers bombed. It's a top fave here. It's just the way it goes. If given a choice, I'd like to meet Lu Feng any day of the week over Jack or Biu. He and they are some of my biggest influences. I personally am drawn to them more than any other(s) in regard to martial picture performers. me too man! thanks for the insight. And wanted to add that i feel so blessed that i can share the love with all of you for these movies and the venoms especially. Its such a small niche that everytime i read posts on here im still shocked that others love these like me. i still havent met anyone in person yet though that loves the venoms movies to the extent we do. strange huh? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Fang Shih-yu Posted September 3, 2010 Member Share Posted September 3, 2010 I was lucky enough to have grown up in Hawaii where there was a Shaw owned theater.What was the theater like? Did workers ever wear blue blazers with the SB shield logo on them, like they did in the scene from The Killer Snakes that took place at a HK Shaw theater? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member teako170 Posted September 3, 2010 Member Share Posted September 3, 2010 I think the word "success" is best defined in how they have influenced a core group of fans over the decades and how we continue to talk about such films 30 years later. The one individual we talked with at Chang Cheh's grave site must have thought we were all a bit crazy for traveling halfway around the globe to visit his final resting place. But if that's how you measure success, then I'm sure CC was all smiles that day.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member vengeanceofhumanlanterns Posted September 4, 2010 Member Share Posted September 4, 2010 Great photo teako. Lu Feng. He certaintly dose'nt look like the bad guy of anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Fang Shih-yu Posted September 4, 2010 Member Share Posted September 4, 2010 So that Shaw theater was closed by the mid '70s then! You obviously have fond memories of the place, RogueWarrior! I would guess it's from here you started your poster collecting, whether you got your first one there or not! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Iron Boat Posted September 10, 2010 Member Share Posted September 10, 2010 I think the word "success" is best defined in how they have influenced a core group of fans over the decades and how we continue to talk about such films 30 years later. The one individual we talked with at Chang Cheh's grave site must have thought we were all a bit crazy for traveling halfway around the globe to visit his final resting place. But if that's how you measure success, then I'm sure CC was all smiles that day.... Great photo, but why do they remind me of Davy Boy from The Monkeys? Hey Hey were the Venoms! People think were snaking around! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member nectarsis Posted November 20, 2011 Member Share Posted November 20, 2011 My question is WHY weren't the Venom's (and films) more popular in Hong Kong? Cast? Subject? or?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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