Does it really matter...

[Blood Sword]

I see your point, but its nice to have the lip movements match the dialog, even if not perfectly.

So you can understand chinese well then?I do not,when they talk my time goes into reading subtitles,not watching characters lips.

Cantonese or chinese does not make any difference to me.

I understand thai averagely well so in United releases where thai is primary audio track I change it to chinese because thai I do not want to hear in shaws.I`m not fan of english dubs either.

[bobo]

i think i should point out again something that a lot of you seem to over look when it comes to the classic english dubs. without them there would have been NO kung fu craze from the 70's to the 80's. there would have been NO shaws in america--there would have been NO shaws on tv. in short there would have been little or no interest in kung fu movies in north america. PERIOD. without the dubs the only place some of these would have been seen would have been chinese language theaters and they would have quickly disappeared. you know it and i know it. the english dubbed shaws are what made these movies known and famous-- in fact all kung fu movies, not just the shaws. i still to this day have not met a single person who will watch, let alone buy a sub titled only movie. another thing that always bugs me on this subject is the way dub haters seem to imply that people who like the eng dubs are simps or something and that all the eng dubs should be put out of existence. i think its time you woke up to reality and smelled the coffee. to this very day the few non dubbed shaws that were ordered in still sit on the dvd shelves and are part of the reason very few stores will order them in. without the english dub no one will buy them--simple as that.

[BigDruDogg]

i think i should point out again something that a lot of you seem to over look when it comes to the classic english dubs. without them there would have been NO kung fu craze from the 70's to the 80's. there would have been NO shaws in america--there would have been NO shaws on tv. in short there would have been little or no interest in kung fu movies in north america. PERIOD. without the dubs the only place some of these would have been seen would have been chinese language theaters and they would have quickly disappeared. you know it and i know it. the english dubbed shaws are what made these movies known and famous-- in fact all kung fu movies, not just the shaws. i still to this day have not met a single person who will watch, let alone buy a sub titled only movie. another thing that always bugs me on this subject is the way dub haters seem to imply that people who like the eng dubs are simps or something and that all the eng dubs should be put out of existence. i think its time you woke up to reality and smelled the coffee. to this very day the few non dubbed shaws that were ordered in still sit on the dvd shelves and are part of the reason very few stores will order them in. without the english dub no one will buy them--simple as that.

I agree 100% I know personally that growing up I wouldn't have had any interest in reading the sub-titles in the movies, that's something that I came to appreciate much later in life. So dubbing was always something I looked for when watching/buying karate movies early on.

But as far as the TV stand point you hit the nail on the head, because in those times they would never put a program on air w/o spoken english...The crazy thing is even with the dubbing, shaw movies and martial arts films in general have a very small following stateside anyhow, and without the dubbing early on I doubt it would've even survived (locally)

But, I'm a big anime fan also and have these same debates with "purists" all the time with subbing/dubbing.. and personally I'll first watch the dubbing if its available.. but I don't hate on others choices, to watch it in it's original format, whatever floats your boat!

[dionbrother]

The Shaw movies have a small following in the States because they haven't played on television in nearly 20 years. In the 80s, they saturated UHF weekend television. Had they consistently played on tv in the last two decades, they would have a bigger following. The majority of people buying the new dvd reissues are fans from the old days. When you pull an entire library of movies from the syndication markets, you lose a chance to attract the next generation of viewers. Because they haven't stayed in the public eye, new fans (conditioned on Jackie/Matrix/Jet Li) look at them as antiquated and silly. The Shaw movies lost out on about two generations of potential fans. And yes, the dubbing was essential because mainly kids were watching Black Belt Theater. Had they been subtitled, the kung fu movie fandom would be smaller, like the Stateside following for chambara movies.

Dubbing was essential in attracting children to watch foreign movies, whether it was kaiju eiga, peplums, Italian horror, spaghetti westerns or kungfu movies. That's what we grew up with. Kids today don't know and don't care about the old stuff, because it rarely plays on television and we have this weird attitude that dubbing is bad, so no stations take chances on broadcasting these films. Tell that to Japan, France or Germany, where American movies play DUBBED on television.

A reliable source at a major anime company recently said the english-dubbed cartoons outsold the subtitled versions 3 to 1 in the old vhs days. I imagine the numbers for kungfu movies were even greater.

[vengeanceofhumanlanterns]

The Duel being released today has some of the best english dubbs. Translations and synching are very good in this film. I'll be pickin up this flick thursday and be watching it this weekend. Nice!

[Jesse Smooth]

Let's not forget a 2% of fans who came to the genre via Wu Tang in the form of 3rd generation Ocean Shores tapes.

[Fang Shih-yu]

i think i should point out again something that a lot of you seem to over look when it comes to the classic english dubs. without them there would have been NO kung fu craze from the 70's to the 80's. there would have been NO shaws in america--there would have been NO shaws on tv. in short there would have been little or no interest in kung fu movies in north america. PERIOD.

The whole of your comment is very true! It's a long road from English-dubbed Shaws in theaters to DVDs and BDs with language options, but Brother Fang (enjoyer of Mandarin and Cantonese tracks with subs) knows enough to thank the moviegoers of the '70s for going out and seeing these films in the first place, and they had no choice in the audio they listened to! All of us here now are grateful for the kung fu "craze" of then! :khi5d:Happy dance!

[Guest Markgway]

Why do we keep having this same old conversation?

Those who like dubs are convinced they're right...

Those who like subs are convinced they're right...

No one is going to change their mind. Ever.

[kungfusamurai]

While I would like the voices to match the lips, I don't mind the dubbing, as long as it's not a dub created in the last decade. In other words, if they don't have a mandarin audio for mandarin lip movement, I'd rather just have the old school cantonese or English than an updated mandarin audio track.

KFS

[dionbrother]

Dubbing is a lost art. I haven't heard a good dub on anything recent in 15 years. A lot of the classic dubbing teams came from old time radio and theater and that added some quality to their work.

[Morgoth Bauglir]

Why do we keep having this same old conversation?

Those who like dubs are convinced they're right...

Those who like subs are convinced they're right...

No one is going to change their mind. Ever.

Damn! I thought for sure you would change your mind after reading this thread.

Oh well, you will become a fan one day. We just have to keep shoving this stuff down your throat. Here's one example of why English dubs are better than reading subs. Last Hero in China-

Jet- "Do you know this stance?"

Hsu- "It's the drunken I can't even get it up stance isn't it!"

Jet- "Wrong, you're wrong. It's the I stole your girlfriend stance."

Now here's what the subtitles say-

Jet- "What kind of stance is this?"

Hsu- "It's Han's Flute!"

Jet- "Wrong! It's the Drunken Crane."

One of those is better than the other. Don't be afraid to admit it:xd:

[Jesse Smooth]

Dubbing is a lost art. I haven't heard a good dub on anything recent in 15 years. A lot of the classic dubbing teams came from old time radio and theater and that added some quality to their work.

Everything done today is done by snot nosed anime dorks and the quality sounds and feels plastic.

[Fang Shih-yu]

Why do we keep having this same old conversation?

Because.... (1) New people keep coming into the conversation, adding their opinions. AND (2) A lot of us are old, and we keep repeating ourselves to distract us from thinking about our hardening arteries!

[BigDruDogg]

Jet- "Do you know this stance?"

Hsu- "It's the drunken I can't even get it up stance isn't it!"

Jet- "Wrong, you're wrong. It's the I stole your girlfriend stance."

Now here's what the subtitles say-

Jet- "What kind of stance is this?"

Hsu- "It's Han's Flute!"

Jet- "Wrong! It's the Drunken Crane."

LMAO, I gotta go rewatch that flick, I forgot all about that line

[BigDruDogg]

Because.... (1) New people keep coming into the conversation, adding their opinions. AND (2) A lot of us are old, and we keep repeating ourselves to distract us from thinking about our hardening arteries!

Don't mention age man... I'll be turning the big 3-0 in a few weeks..... I've already sprouted some gray... I guess I'll just start going for the pai mei look...