Executioners From Shaolin or Clan of the White Lotus

[brookman3325]

i want to get one of these which is better Executioners From Shaolin or Clan of the White Lotus

[The Silver Fox]

Storywise,they are quite similar,both feature Lo Leih as Pei Mei. I guess it depends on what actors you prefer. I like EFS better because it has Chen Kuan Tai and Wang Yu and there isn't as much comedy as White Lotus.

I think the training sequences are more entertaining in Executioners as well. I'm not the biggest Gordon Liu fan so that probably clouds my assessment a bit, but IMO-EFS is an overall better film and is an acknowledged classic, so I think you should get that one.

[tdb]

I think the general consensus is that CLAN edges out EXECUTIONERS. Both movies are good and worth watching, though. I'd say pick them both up (I own both).

[magicpoe]

But both are classics.

[mpm74]

Get both! =D

[shaolin swords]

if i would have to pick one i would pick executioners from shaolin because white lotus had way way way too much comedy moments they went over board with that so i would say buy executioners from shaolin but if you like comedy stuff buy the white lotus flick.

[mantis FIST]

Both films are good, and each had it's own flavor. I think some of the fights are better in Fist, plus I think the pacing is better in Fist, but EFS is good too! Personally, I would get both.

[brookman3325]

Agreed. Get them both, they are both excellent classics.

thank i think ill have to get both seeing as there both classics

[David Rees]

Both....Clans has the better choreography in my opinion....

[Iron Boat]

Both films have a glaring weakness, in Clans the comedy is strange, Executioners has an anti climatic ending.

[June]

hello,

it's 2 parts of the series:

MEN FROM THE MONESTERY

EXCUTIONERS FROM SHAOLIN

CLAN OF THE WHITE LOTUS

get all three if possible.

[BigDruDogg]

hello,

it's 2 parts of the series:

MEN FROM THE MONESTERY

EXCUTIONERS FROM SHAOLIN

CLAN OF THE WHITE LOTUS

get all three if possible.

I thought Men from the Monestery was more of a sequel/ode to Heroes Two? Maybe I'm mistaken...

Anyhow, I personally liked Clan of the White Lotus the best of the 2, the final fight scene was actually pretty funny to me..

EFS is a close 2nd though...

[Fang Shih-yu]

I thought Men from the Monestery was more of a sequel/ode to Heroes Two? Maybe I'm mistaken...

What I've picked up on from many readings is the idea that the complete film Heroes Two is actually a minor story (how Fang and Hung met) that occurs during the timeframe covered in Men From the Monastery. Given how the films are reported to have been made back-to-back, and how they were edited like they were, it's easy to be confused! As I see it, Fang's segment in MFtM would be followed by the whole HT, and then the rest of MFtM is right after that...chronologically speaking!

[BigDruDogg]

Leave it to Brother Fang, to break it down correctly Sadly I didn't even think to research before my initial post, I was just going off the characters used in both films, and my general knowledge from each film..

Thanks for the Info, and correcting that..

[kungfusamurai]

I think both are enjoyable, but I'll always rank Executioners as one of the top 3 best Shaw Brothers kung fu films. The other two being Five Venoms and 36th Chamber.

Executioners and Clan may seem similar on the surface, but they are two very different films. The first is a drama with kung fu, and is not really played for laughs. It does suffer from Wang Yu's comedy, but that was Pop's fault, not Wang Yu's. And the fighting might be slow compared to films that came out a year or two later, but otherwise, for me, it's a flawless film.

Clan of The White Lotus is just about the fighting. The story, the acting, the cheesy comedy, are all pretty silly. I also didn't like the ending with all the pins. Just too over the top. I think Wang Yu accidentally discovering Pai Mei's weakness is a great cinematic twist, one of the best kung fu endings. It helps that it was quick, and part of it was gravity that helped put down Pai Mei (i.e. the stairs). No way Wang Yu could pummel Pai Mei and finish him off.

Executioners 10/10

Clan of The White Lotus 7/10.

KFS

[KyFi]

I share kungfusamurai's opinion, and for many of the same reasons. EFS is a sweeping historical drama, family drama, history of kung fu styles----it covers decades and several generations of Shaolin fighters. I see COTWL as a "lite" version of EFS, although with slightly higher-caliber fight scenes. I would also go with 10/10 for EFS, and 7/10 for Clan.

[Iron Boat]

J

I think both are enjoyable, but I'll always rank Executioners as one of the top 3 best Shaw Brothers kung fu films. The other two being Five Venoms and 36th Chamber.

Executioners and Clan may seem similar on the surface, but they are two very different films. The first is a drama with kung fu, and is not really played for laughs. It does suffer from Wang Yu's comedy, but that was Pop's fault, not Wang Yu's. And the fighting might be slow compared to films that came out a year or two later, but otherwise, for me, it's a flawless film.

Clan of The White Lotus is just about the fighting. The story, the acting, the cheesy comedy, are all pretty silly. I also didn't like the ending with all the pins. Just too over the top. I think Wang Yu accidentally discovering Pai Mei's weakness is a great cinematic twist, one of the best kung fu endings. It helps that it was quick, and part of it was gravity that helped put down Pai Mei (i.e. the stairs). No way Wang Yu could pummel Pai Mei and finish him off.

Executioners 10/10

Clan of The White Lotus 7/10.

KFS

Good explanation, I find Executioner to be the better film as well, Chen Kuan Tai and Lily Li's acting is just so strong in that film. I think Clan's is a bit unfocused and I lose attention somewhere in the middle of that film. Both have pretty weak endings imo, Pai Mei deserved one of those Cheng Cheh styled death sequences, as in its going to take a lot to bring him down.

[peringaten]

...as in its going to take a lot to bring him down.

It does take a lot to bring him down though; it takes an entire movie...

Sorry, gonna ramble...

The characters represent the legends of Southern Siu Lum kung fu, & primarily the hung gar style; and moreso, they represent the tenets. This film is about hung gar kyun; it's signifying tiger & crane system - the fu hok drawn, as a primary in Lau Kar Leung's family system.

First off, the original directly translated is "Hung Hei Goon", (Canto) or "Hung Xi Guan", Chen Kuan Tai's character & the legend after which the Hung Gar Kyun style is titled. The film is about hung gar. Legend stating monk Gee Sin passed traditional Siu Lum kung fu onto Hung Hei Goon, before he evolved it from the temple - Gee Sin is killed by Bak Mei in the opening. Hung Hei Goon represents purely the hard force of the tiger style; he has to meet his fate here; you can't always overcome with just force - it will break or wear you down.

Lily Li represents the soft, the crane - the two components in unison form the system. From learning hung kyun I'm coming to realise the importance of the hard hand/armwork, stances,etc., mixed with the soft, for one example, in the redirection of anything incoming during fight application. You have to balance the two to have control of the style; the ability to balance soft & hard in posture, structure, displacent & all. How to relax & tighten force to control it - your's or anothers.

Wong Yue, in his somewhat uniquely telegraphed maner of such represents the evolution of his parents - he is the evolution of the tenets of the style. Force & softness together overcome the beast. He is this personified. Having only a part of his father's tiger manual speaks for the use of initiative & evolution it takes to create this progression.

So to defeat Bak Mei it takes a lot: the evolution of an entire system - the characters aren't so important, what they represent is. From the basics of traditional Shaolin through force, softness & balance to a final understanding. There's a lot of martial message underlying this film that seperates it from the pack, leaving out a need for all out carnage; it's not a preoccupation here, it's a whole different thing. It's bigger.

[Iron Boat]

Great post peringtan, I totally agree with you, it did basically take the entire film to defeat him. Over the years I'm not sure what happened to my film preferences but as I've gotten older I realize the younger me appreciated LKL's approach to filmmaking much more than I do today. I use to love the fact LKL put the art, philosophy, and practice front and center but then with the rerelease of the Shaw Library, I am suddenly presented with 100's of Shaw films readily available for viewing and I end up becoming a Sun Chung, Cheng Cheh type of guy, which in a sense is the opposite of LKL. I don't know, sometimes when I watch LKL's films I think he tried so hard as a director to not be like CC that he removed a lot of the "fun" out of his films.

His use of comedy was suppose to be "fun" but Is a bit of a distraction to me. IMO despite the lessons and historical underpinnings of the film I think a Sun Chung or CC could of made Executioners and Clans a more exciting and rewarding experience.

[peringaten]

I think he tried so hard as a director to not be like CC that he removed a lot of the "fun" out of his films.

I think it's interesting how Executioners starts almost like a CC film, with Gordon's heroic bit it's almost like a nod to CC's style & Shaolin Cycle even; like a this is the first act how CC might play things, but now I'm gonna change the pace & rep the characters my way... Like it's showing how LKL evolves differently out of CC's thing.

[Iron Boat]

I think it's interesting how Executioners starts almost like a CC film, with Gordon's heroic bit it's almost like a nod to CC's style & Shaolin Cycle even; like a this is the first act how CC might play things, but now I'm gonna change the pace & rep the characters my way... Like it's showing how LKL evolves differently out of CC's thing.

Right that's part of why I say it has a weak ending cause it does start and look like a CC film but then evolves into a LKL styled picture. Executioners should of been CC throughout.

[BigDruDogg]

Take note on the styles Gordon's Character uses in that opening scene. What 2 of the 5 Hung Ga animals were missing from the fight?

I haven't seen the movie in a few months but was it Snake, an Leopard? Sorry I'm too lazy to break it out

[peringaten]

Is it dragon & crane? I'm guessing, and I might be reaching, but it works in the scheme of things... at that stage of the film the style is lacking the softness of the crane Lily Li injects alongside the dragon representing the internal; the internal which Lo Lieh personifies in many ways. It takes the combination to complete the evolution; hence why Gordon lacking (although I see some bits of crossover, just because he's got it already) has to be beaten? Maybe a stretch, but could be...

[shaolin swords]

i have not seen this movie in like 14 years but i am almost shore the style he was useing is the tiger and crane style

on another note i wish the style of kung fu that gordon liu was useing in shaolin vs wutang the chi kang fist was a real style of kung fu.because even though theres kung fu style that are like chi kang fist useing pressure point striking and evry thing.that style in shaolin vs wutang looked like one deadly style.

[KyFi]

It does take a lot to bring him down though; it takes an entire movie...

Sorry, gonna ramble...

The characters represent the legends of Southern Siu Lum kung fu, & primarily the hung gar style; and moreso, they represent the tenets. This film is about hung gar kyun; it's signifying tiger & crane system - the fu hok drawn, as a primary in Lau Kar Leung's family system.

First off, the original directly translated is "Hung Hei Goon", (Canto) or "Hung Xi Guan", Chen Kuan Tai's character & the legend after which the Hung Gar Kyun style is titled. The film is about hung gar. Legend stating monk Gee Sin passed traditional Siu Lum kung fu onto Hung Hei Goon, before he evolved it from the temple - Gee Sin is killed by Bak Mei in the opening. Hung Hei Goon represents purely the hard force of the tiger style; he has to meet his fate here; you can't always overcome with just force - it will break or wear you down.

Lily Li represents the soft, the crane - the two components in unison form the system. From learning hung kyun I'm coming to realise the importance of the hard hand/armwork, stances,etc., mixed with the soft, for one example, in the redirection of anything incoming during fight application. You have to balance the two to have control of the style; the ability to balance soft & hard in posture, structure, displacent & all. How to relax & tighten force to control it - your's or anothers.

Wong Yue, in his somewhat uniquely telegraphed maner of such represents the evolution of his parents - he is the evolution of the tenets of the style. Force & softness together overcome the beast. He is this personified. Having only a part of his father's tiger manual speaks for the use of initiative & evolution it takes to create this progression.

So to defeat Bak Mei it takes a lot: the evolution of an entire system - the characters aren't so important, what they represent is. From the basics of traditional Shaolin through force, softness & balance to a final understanding. There's a lot of martial message underlying this film that seperates it from the pack, leaving out a need for all out carnage; it's not a preoccupation here, it's a whole different thing. It's bigger.

Good post. And to piggyback on that, I know some people complain about the anti-climatic, too short final fight, but this too was part of the whole point. The story really emphasized that Wong Yue didn't train as long or as hard as his father, and indeed only had half the manual. I think LKL was showing that once Wang Yue got in line with the Tao, that is, balancing hard and soft, understanding yin-yang---then EVERYTHING becomes much easier. And conversely, when his father was just all power and yang, it didn't matter how long or hard he trained, he still wasn't going to win.