Member Lionclaw Posted July 21, 2014 Member Share Posted July 21, 2014 The main complaints I've heard all come down to an overly long of a run time, repetitive action, too many side characters, overly complex plot, not being as good as the first, and just not living up to the hype. (Which at this point is sky high so thats a reasonable statement I guess.) Maybe I've seen so many good reviews that anything less than worship sticks out to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member masterofoneinchpunch Posted July 21, 2014 Member Share Posted July 21, 2014 Not that I feel everyone should have a universally glowing review for this movie I do wonder why these so-so reviews are seemingly coming out of the woodwork and around the same time. I would think martial arts fans would be more forgiving, not that this movie needs forgiving. Well I would take in consideration that it was just released here in the States and I myself just watched it for the first time this weekend (I would have seen it in the theater if it came anywhere near to Modesto CA -- I even complained to the manager who had no idea what I was talking about, but that's normal.) So I think that might be one reason you are seeing some "less than glowing" reviews. But I also think that is normal. You see a trend of over-the-top praise (looking in IMDB I see one thread The greatest cinematography in action genre and then you get more balanced reviews as time puts things into perspective or some are just tired of hyperbole and voice their opinions. For those who follow the IMDB top 250 it is currently in there, but it will slowly go down and eventually out (this is a pattern many new movies make.) I might put my thoughts down on the film later (after some more pondering), though when something is praised this much it is sometimes hard to get rational discussion about the movie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member OpiumKungFuCracker Posted July 21, 2014 Member Share Posted July 21, 2014 Well I would take in consideration that it was just released here in the States and I myself just watched it for the first time this weekend (I would have seen it in the theater if it came anywhere near to Modesto CA -- I even complained to the manager who had no idea what I was talking about, but that's normal.) So I think that might be one reason you are seeing some "less than glowing" reviews. But I also think that is normal. You see a trend of over-the-top praise (looking in IMDB I see one thread The greatest cinematography in action genre and then you get more balanced reviews as time puts things into perspective or some are just tired of hyperbole and voice their opinions. For those who follow the IMDB top 250 it is currently in there, but it will slowly go down and eventually out (this is a pattern many new movies make.) I might put my thoughts down on the film later (after some more pondering), though when something is praised this much it is sometimes hard to get rational discussion about the movie. Last one, and I'm officially retiring gifs posting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member masterofoneinchpunch Posted July 22, 2014 Member Share Posted July 22, 2014 I'm still going to give this film some more thought. I'm certainly not in the hyperbole camp that this movie has generated. I'm currently debating on thinking whether I like it or not (**½ to *** out of ****). This movie has some significant flaws. In some ways this movie is analogous to Special ID where the fight scenes are the highlight of the movie though even those can be problematic. The fight scenes are overall quite good. The car chase scene reminded me of the one in Special ID including the use of close combat fighting. Often the cinematography can be quite interesting with the use of angles and camera movement. But sometimes it overdoes the shakiness. Whenever I find myself wondering “why is the camera moving from side-to-side for no reason” or “stop that movement so I can see the movements of the martial artists” I tend to find that a fault in filmmaking. The over-the-top violence delves into sadism (on all sides even when some of the characters should not be) which is off-putting to me. I have no issues with long films. I just watched Ben-Hur again. It is what you do with the allotted time. For a film of this length I wonder how they were not able to put a decent plot together. Gareth Evans is certainly not Martin Scorsese or Johnnie To in dealing with underworld codes or characterization. I do not expect him to be, but I do expect more humanization than stock characters of Crime boss, Crime boss’s son wanting to take over and mole. You get a little of this with Rama’s “I guess suffering wife” and Uco’s later “sad” moment, but they feel perfunctory. Secondary to the mayhem of the next fight scene. Overall there is a feeling of nihilism prevalent in the perverseness of bloodlust. I wish there was more feeling. But yet I'm still impressed by some of mayhem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member ToryK Posted July 22, 2014 Member Share Posted July 22, 2014 I would have liked for the film to have spent more time with Rama and whatever pain he was dealing with, after seeing it for a third time. I still find Uco to be a fairly well-rounded character, but that might just be because of some of the personal things I've brought up before. People like him exist, and that kind of anger exists. I still think it's a fantastic movie and I stand by my praise, but I would have liked to see another standout action scene or two in the middle and some more of the focus put on Rama. Otherwise, still a great movie. I do think it's a wee bit childish to shoot down any negative opinion pertaining to it, though. People think Darabont's Stephen King movies are the bee's knees, and the only one I really care for is The Mist. Opinions are opinions, and who am I to mock someone for disagreeing with me. In fact, I can understand where some of you guys are coming from. This movie just happens to match up with my personal tastes and some of personality traits and quirks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member paimeifist Posted July 22, 2014 Member Share Posted July 22, 2014 My issue with the fights is that they're consistently good, but there aren't the stand out fights like you had in the first film. Maybe it is because the choreo style is getting tired, but I don't think that's it. I mean hammer girl and bat boy? There wasn't much variety in their fighting, and their gimmick wore out quick. I feel much of the fighting in this was aimed towards brutality rather than a display of skill, where the first film shined in both aspects. I remember at some point near the 3rd quarter of this movie Uko hadn't fought in a while, and once he began fighting again, the movie was immediately more entertaining than it had been the previous 20 minutes or more. I think they either need to enlist some new talent to surround Uko, or kill the raid series and begin another where they can include the people who played Jaka, Mad Dog, and Ukos brother... Because the rest of the cast in the sequel made me miss them. The one good fight with the guy in the kitchen I think? It was good but didn't compare to anything in the first film in my view. Without over analyzing though, the movie bored me at times, and I wasn't On the edge of my seat even during some of the fights. I was entertained through the entirety of the first film. I watched it with a friend who is a much more casual fan of martial arts films, he enjoys the "cult classics", and he love the first film. But he felt the same as I on the Raid 2. The movie was decent to me. I don't think Opium is trying to shoot anyone down, I think he's just being a joker, and his gifs were hilarious. And they feature badass people, Nicholson and Carrey. Lul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member OpiumKungFuCracker Posted July 22, 2014 Member Share Posted July 22, 2014 I mean hammer girl and bat boy? There wasn't much variety in their fighting, and their gimmick wore out quick. The movie was decent to me. They were barely in the movie though. I mean what more do you want in a character called," Hammer girl and Bat boy? They came out exactly what they were intended to do, LOL.. You want more variety in those two characters? They were fun characters, comic book characters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member paimeifist Posted July 22, 2014 Member Share Posted July 22, 2014 They were barely in the movie though. I mean what more do you want in a character called," Hammer girl and Bat boy? They came out exactly what they were intended to do, LOL.. You want more variety in those two characters? They were fun characters, comic book characters. I would have rather had another "psycho guy with machete" though, haha. But you have a good point. When I said is wanted more variety I meant in there fighting, I guess I was expecting more fancy movements...but again, as you said, why would I expect that? Lol. Anyway, if we all agreed, there wouldn't be much of a forum. Maybe I should watch the movie again by myself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Secret Executioner Posted July 22, 2014 Member Share Posted July 22, 2014 They were barely in the movie though. I mean what more do you want in a character called," Hammer girl and Bat boy? They came out exactly what they were intended to do, LOL.. You want more variety in those two characters? They were fun characters, comic book characters. Yeah, their names alone sound like Silver Age comic book characters - the kind of characters that rely on one gimmick or theme. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Lionclaw Posted July 22, 2014 Member Share Posted July 22, 2014 My issue with the fights is that they're consistently good, but there aren't the stand out fights like you had in the first film. Maybe it is because the choreo style is getting tired, but I don't think that's it. I mean hammer girl and bat boy? There wasn't much variety in their fighting, and their gimmick wore out quick. I feel much of the fighting in this was aimed towards brutality rather than a display of skill, where the first film shined in both aspects. I remember at some point near the 3rd quarter of this movie Uko hadn't fought in a while, and once he began fighting again, the movie was immediately more entertaining than it had been the previous 20 minutes or more. I think they either need to enlist some new talent to surround Uko, or kill the raid series and begin another where they can include the people who played Jaka, Mad Dog, and Ukos brother... Because the rest of the cast in the sequel made me miss them. The one good fight with the guy in the kitchen I think? It was good but didn't compare to anything in the first film in my view. Without over analyzing though, the movie bored me at times, and I wasn't On the edge of my seat even during some of the fights. I was entertained through the entirety of the first film. I watched it with a friend who is a much more casual fan of martial arts films, he enjoys the "cult classics", and he love the first film. But he felt the same as I on the Raid 2. The movie was decent to me. I don't think Opium is trying to shoot anyone down, I think he's just being a joker, and his gifs were hilarious. And they feature badass people, Nicholson and Carrey. Lul What fights in the first one stood out to you the most? In my opinion the machete gang and the drug lab fights were the most memorable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member paimeifist Posted July 22, 2014 Member Share Posted July 22, 2014 What fights in the first one stood out to you the most? In my opinion the machete gang and the drug lab fights were the most memorable. Those two as well, Jaka vs Mad Dog (awesome contrast of style, big vs little, strong vs fast), and the finale of course. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Lionclaw Posted July 22, 2014 Member Share Posted July 22, 2014 So you weren't impressed with the car chase/fight scene in the Raid 2? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member BaronK Posted July 22, 2014 Member Share Posted July 22, 2014 Saw it in the theater when it came out and that was a great feeling. Where maybe 5-6 us and that was the second week i believe. When I checked the B.O. at the time, I saw that it wasn't doing well at all so it wasn't just that day, that place. I like the movie. The run time did not drag but doesn't make sense to be that long much like Skyfall. Didn't find myself wanting for action between action. Found the acting to be pretty good. People did a good job showing fear and terror in spots. I don't get the greatest action movie ever praises but I like it. Action was best 1 on 1, as the group stuff tended to have the Fing camera moving and shaking. I wanted to punch someone because it was distracting and nauseating. STOP. Ish. Some of the comments here echo my feelings about the violence. Just as I thought the violence in The Raid was OTT, horror type stuff, this was worse. I love martial pictures. The gore-porn fest in this took away so much of the enjoyment I might otherwise haave gotten. It wasn't that Chang Cheh type or John Woo type. This was extra graphic gore-porn. It wasn't meant to look cool the way Woo's was, once you got over the shock of his style, so what was the point? Do we really need to see a guy laying on the ground, get his head shot to chunks in a shot like that? Do we really need to see a guy get his head held down while another fires away into his head like that? Hammer Girl? Wtf was that? I saw the Hammer Girl short one of the guys did and I like that because it had some good chor revolving around both ends of the hammer. It was hard to watch as well but TR2 HG train fight was gross. It was like watching people get chain sawed. What was that about? It wasn't dope. "Whenever I find myself wondering “why is the camera moving from side-to-side for no reason” or “stop that movement so I can see the movements of the martial artists” I tend to find that a fault in filmmaking. The over-the-top violence delves into sadism (on all sides even when some of the characters should not be) which is off-putting to me." Feel exactly the same. Iko handles this very well. He has the vulnerability to pull off the mole while being scared, unsettled, trapped, used. That end fight was epic. A new classic. It was rolling along hot, then, the music kicked in and that thing gave me goosebumps. He is still very Jack like. He can do all of the moves but he has no power. Taslim, while not a big guy, gives off more in the action because he looks like he's bringing it. Iko doesn't elbow, knee or kick hard in the cinematic sense. He was even softer looking in Man Of Tai Chi. You look at the Thai stuff, Jaa etc. That, looks hard. Iko does not. Too Jack like. The action does feel similar throughout but really changes when Cecep Arif Rahman steps in. He and Iko went straight KF when when they went against each other. Silat could make great KF like movies with the style as they used to with B Prima. That was highlight stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member paimeifist Posted July 22, 2014 Member Share Posted July 22, 2014 So you weren't impressed with the car chase/fight scene in the Raid 2? It was a good scene, but it wasnt as memorable as anything I had mentioned from the original film, or the fight with Cecep Arif Rahman, whos name I just learned from the previous post. Lol. Again, different strokes for different folks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member the moose Posted July 22, 2014 Member Share Posted July 22, 2014 When I first posted my not so 'glowing' opinion of the movie I thought "I'm gonna get one hell of a backlash from all these forum members, coz the hype for this movie is astronomical" - but actually thats not been the case. It's been refreshing to see others either share my opinion or cast their own critical eye over the movie. I did like it, but it was not deserving of all the hype. Even the reviewer here on KFC gave it a 5 out of 5. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member ToryK Posted July 22, 2014 Member Share Posted July 22, 2014 There were enough standouts for it to have hit "classic" status with me. The opening bathroom scene and the riot stand out for execution, but not necessarily in terms of choreo. The bar set-up was just visceral, also a standout in terms of execution. But I'll put the final 45 minutes up against anything in the first movie. I absolutely loved the 2-on-1 and the kitchen fight beats the fight with Mad Dog for me. I think I've said this before, but it had shades of Jackie's fight with Benny the Jet in Wheels on Meals, two dangerous dudes semi-respectfully going at it. Obviously, they're going for blood, but it was also a technique thing. "Who's the better man?" And I love that. But I agree, in terms of movement and choreography, they could vary things up a bit. As for the violence, I think Evans is all about showing the effects of the damage being done. Bejo's face looked that way because that's what really happens when someone blows your face to bits with a shotgun. I do think he wants to shock us, but I also think he just refuses to sugar-coat what violence does. Sort of the antithesis of the PG-13 action movie - people being shot and there's no blood to be seen anywhere. That's just bullshit, ya know? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member OpiumKungFuCracker Posted July 23, 2014 Member Share Posted July 23, 2014 For those that were under-whelmed. Name me another action movie THIS YEAR, NOT THE YEAR BEFORE or AFTER, but 2014 that was better than the Raid 2? Go on I'll wait. If you guys are allowed to criticized and nitpick the film, then I'm allowed to defend it by all means!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Lionclaw Posted July 23, 2014 Member Share Posted July 23, 2014 For those that were under-whelmed. Name me another action movie THIS YEAR, NOT THE YEAR BEFORE or AFTER, but 2014 that was better than the Raid 2? Go on I'll wait. If you guys are allowed to criticized and nitpick the film, then I'm allowed to defend it by all means!!! Someone had to go there, lol. This should be interesting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member paimeifist Posted July 23, 2014 Member Share Posted July 23, 2014 For those that were under-whelmed. Name me another action movie THIS YEAR, NOT THE YEAR BEFORE or AFTER, but 2014 that was better than the Raid 2? Go on I'll wait. If you guys are allowed to criticized and nitpick the film, then I'm allowed to defend it by all means!!! Lol, I dont think anyone said anything from this year was better, and what's it matter if it beats out weak opposition? No one said the film was bad, some of us were just a little let down after seeing reviews hyping it up so much. Now quit being dogmatic, and let's see a Heath Ledger joker gif. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member DiP Posted July 23, 2014 Member Share Posted July 23, 2014 For those that were under-whelmed. Name me another action movie THIS YEAR, NOT THE YEAR BEFORE or AFTER, but 2014 that was better than the Raid 2? Go on I'll wait. If you guys are allowed to criticized and nitpick the film, then I'm allowed to defend it by all means!!! It's definitely the best action film of this year so far. But that's one thing while most people saying it's the best action film OF ALL TIME (come on people, let's not ditch all the classics just because of a movie that duplicates all those anyway) is another. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member paimeifist Posted July 23, 2014 Member Share Posted July 23, 2014 It's definitely the best action film of this year so far. But that's one thing while most people saying it's the best action film OF ALL TIME (come on people, let's not ditch all the classics just because of a movie that duplicates all those anyway) is another. +1, Seconded. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member OpiumKungFuCracker Posted July 23, 2014 Member Share Posted July 23, 2014 Lol, I dont think anyone said anything from this year was better, and what's it matter if it beats out weak opposition? No one said the film was bad, some of us were just a little let down after seeing reviews hyping it up so much. Now quit being dogmatic, and let's see a Heath Ledger joker gif. I just ask a simple question. Its been a weak position for 3 years since dredd and the raid came out. Do you know how long of a drought that is? 80s and 90s were pumping out action movies more than a pregnant Ecuadorian woman in her period. The fact that you guys can't even name one is sad for the action film industry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member paimeifist Posted July 23, 2014 Member Share Posted July 23, 2014 Indeed, very sad. Wu Xia was no good? I havent seen it. But yah man, I don't think the raid 2 is shit, I just think it is above average. I guess it helps that I haven't been watching all the crap that's been coming out, actually, the Raid may be the most recent real MA release I watched before this, lol. But again, if people said "it's the best action film in 3 years" it wouldn't have been a let down. But when we hear "best ever, better than the first",etc. It creates very high expectations. Would you consider Star Trek: into darkness as action? I loved that movie when I saw it at the theatre. I still have not seen the new Dredd. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member OpiumKungFuCracker Posted July 23, 2014 Member Share Posted July 23, 2014 Indeed, very sad. Wu Xia was no good? I havent seen it. But yah man, I don't think the raid 2 is shit, I just think it is above average. I guess it helps that I haven't been watching all the crap that's been coming out, actually, the Raid may be the most recent real MA release I watched before this, lol. But again, if people said "it's the best action film in 3 years" it wouldn't have been a let down. But when we hear "best ever, better than the first",etc. It creates very high expectations. Would you consider Star Trek: into darkness as action? I loved that movie when I saw it at the theatre. I still have not seen the new Dredd. I could see where you're coming from. I don't usually mix in Wu Xia/martial arts movies with action unless, there is guns/cops/criminals in modern setting, that's just me though. I see into darkness as a sci fi film but then again some people have their preference set differently. I may just be talking out of my ass since Dredd is set in the far future and that could be considered Sci Fi? Ughgghhhhh!!! Trying to differentiate genre films is so annoying. A good film is a good film I guess. I'm surprised none of you guys have said Winter Soldier, that's a good action movie (Comic Book) to compete against the Raid 2. With that being said, maybe I am overrated The Raid 2 just a tad bit but whatever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Secret Executioner Posted July 23, 2014 Member Share Posted July 23, 2014 The ONLY reasons I didn't immediately go and drop the Winter Soldier bomb after OKFC asked about good action movies from 2014 were that a) it's a comic book movie (and it seems they are NOT the same as action ie the "Dark Knight of action movies" comment on The Raid 2 - BTW, I find TDK very overrated) and I haven't seen The Raid 2 yet so I don't want to give it any props or tear it a new one before I actually see it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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