Member kungfusamurai Posted May 20, 2010 Author Member Share Posted May 20, 2010 Too bad my opinions are better than yours! Thanks for the info on the ETD versions. I'm going to have to probably just get the VHS. I only have the Sp Ed version on VHS, because it came in that fancy box with the book. KFS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member kungfusamurai Posted May 20, 2010 Author Member Share Posted May 20, 2010 Disagree completely. The GAME OF DEATH stuff always looked liked test footage to me. WIth the exception of the Inosanto fight, not much flow to them. His best work was WAY OF THE DRAGON. It was funny and fast, and never too serious. I think Tang Lung was closer to the real Bruce described by his friends. I kind of felt that some of the moments in Way Of The Dragon were autobiographical, maybe from his early days back in the USA. Like that moment when that annoying white woman keeps staring at him at the airport. Plus he was also a waiter at a restaurant. KFS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Markgway Posted May 20, 2010 Share Posted May 20, 2010 That encounter with the Italian hottie isn't autobiographical... We all know the real Bruce would've banged her silly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Space Posted May 20, 2010 Member Share Posted May 20, 2010 Disagree completely. The GAME OF DEATH stuff always looked liked test footage to me. WIth the exception of the Inosanto fight, not much flow to them. Some of it did seem to be shot with a low number of takes, and what we see is the very end of the movie...it's hard to say what the rest would have been like, and how emotionally involved we would be with a proper movie behind it (heck, even a finished score and sound effects too). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member kungfusamurai Posted May 20, 2010 Author Member Share Posted May 20, 2010 That encounter with the Italian hottie isn't autobiographical... We all know the real Bruce would've banged her silly. Actually the original version did have a scene like that. The working title for the film was called 'The Way Of The Dragon...In My Pants' and it was about the Little Dragon showing off his Big Dragon to the ladies all over Italy. But they ran out of women willing to take the cat like screams, so they went back to just a pure action flick. At least that's what Ric Meyers said. KFS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member kungfusamurai Posted May 20, 2010 Author Member Share Posted May 20, 2010 Some of it did seem to be shot with a low number of takes, and what we see is the very end of the movie...it's hard to say what the rest would have been like, and how emotionally involved we would be with a proper movie behind it (heck, even a finished score and sound effects too). I don't know. There wouldn't have been so many shots at so many different angles if it was just test footage. I would have figured it would have been a wide master shot only. But who knows, maybe that was Bruce's style? He was probably expecting more people to sign on before he got side tracked to do ETD, so I doubt what filmed was considered the fully finished product. KFS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Markgway Posted May 20, 2010 Share Posted May 20, 2010 I think it's because we were used to seeing "outtakes" for 25 years that the some fans find it hard to accept any of the footage as scenes Bruce intended to use. But fact is he left editing notes which were followed in the reconstruction. It can't be a coincidence that the reedited 40 mins plays out so exact. No hash job of bits and pieces could look that professional without intent. That's just the way I see it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Markgway Posted May 20, 2010 Share Posted May 20, 2010 Actually the original version did have a scene like that. The working title for the film was called 'The Way Of The Dragon...In My Pants' and it was about the Little Dragon showing off his Big Dragon to the ladies all over Italy. But they ran out of women willing to take the cat like screams, so they went back to just a pure action flick. At least that's what Ric Meyers said. Meyers was Lee's stunt cock. True fact fans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Chinatown Kid Posted May 21, 2010 Member Share Posted May 21, 2010 Meyers was Lee's stunt cock. True fact fans. lol a prick with a beard poor Ric can't get any love from the kung fu community can he Enter the Dragon is an almost perfect action film to me that forgets about plot and focuses on mind boggling action, it was ahead of it's time when it came out in 73. I think it's kind of unfair to compare it to films that came out years later because of course choreography went to greater heights over time. Lee makes the film and without him it wouldn't be the same, he was one of a kind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member David Rees Posted May 21, 2010 Member Share Posted May 21, 2010 For its time Enter was fantastic and has stood the test of time very well. I have to mention the music score which lifts the film enormously. Mei Ling was filmed fighting some guards before releasing the prisoners but it wasnt used, i have seen stills of her and Bruce rehearsing the scene. I prefer the theatrical cut, it flows better, its ridiculous that the version shown in cinema's is not available on dvd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Markgway Posted May 21, 2010 Share Posted May 21, 2010 Enter the Dragon is an almost perfect action film to me that forgets about plot and focuses on mind boggling action Leonard Maltin would certainly agree! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member TibetanWhiteCrane Posted May 21, 2010 Member Share Posted May 21, 2010 it was ahead of it's time when it came out in 73. I think it's kind of unfair to compare it to films that came out years later because of course choreography went to greater heights over time. I don't agree... I think, for an example, the end fight in When Taekwondo Strikes is waaaaaay better than anything you find in Enter The Dragon, and that was the same year. I also think Hapkido had better action than both Fist Of Fury and Way Of The Dragon. But then again, I rate Sammo mile high above Bruce as an action director. Sammo made everyone shine, Bruce made no one shine but himself. That is fact, that even the most ardent BL fan can't refute! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member KyFi Posted May 21, 2010 Member Share Posted May 21, 2010 I don't agree... I think, for an example, the end fight in When Taekwondo Strikes is waaaaaay better than anything you find in Enter The Dragon, and that was the same year. I also think Hapkido had better action than both Fist Of Fury and Way Of The Dragon. But then again, I rate Sammo mile high above Bruce as an action director. Sammo made everyone shine, Bruce made no one shine but himself. That is fact, that even the most ardent BL fan can't refute! I tend to agree about Sammo. Having seen a bunch of those early Golden Harvest movies for the first time in the last couple of years, I've concluded that Sammo spent about 1971-1975 getting pummelled by Angela Mao! Also, wasn't Shaw's Heroes Two filmed in 1973? That choreography was pretty groundbreaking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Space Posted May 21, 2010 Member Share Posted May 21, 2010 I don't agree... I think, for an example, the end fight in When Taekwondo Strikes is waaaaaay better than anything you find in Enter The Dragon, and that was the same year. I also think Hapkido had better action than both Fist Of Fury and Way Of The Dragon. But then again, I rate Sammo mile high above Bruce as an action director. Sammo made everyone shine, Bruce made no one shine but himself. That is fact, that even the most ardent BL fan can't refute! True, Bruce never "fought" anyone on screen who was as at his level, including Sammo and Jackie. I don't think choreography is Bruce's movies was ever ground-breaking but Bruce was, physically and mentally. The best fighters in the world these days probably wouldn't be grand at on-screen choreography, and some of the best choreographers (like Sammo) wouldn't hold up against certain physical specimens. To me, Bruce was always more about realism, then choreography, and appreciating his physical skills and holistic approach to martial arts (which was ahead of its time). All things considered, he was pretty good at choreography though, considering he had no related training for on-screen action, compared to the opera guys whose performance skills translated to movies much easier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Chinatown Kid Posted May 21, 2010 Member Share Posted May 21, 2010 Leonard Maltin would certainly agree! I knew I had read that somewhere before Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member dionbrother Posted May 21, 2010 Member Share Posted May 21, 2010 The difference between the likes of HAPKIDO and ENTER THE DRAGON is that Mao Ying never looks like she's fighting. Nobody in the cast can throw a stage punch worth a shit, and with the exception of Whang Ing Sik, all are immensely bad kickers. Everytime Bruce threw a punch or kick, he looked like he meant it, which I attribute to his early acting training and his experience in Hollywood with stunt crews. He knew how to sell the moves for the camera. Plus, he was simply more athletic than the average action star in HK and it shows. Look at the non-Bruce fights in BIG BOSS, and James Tien just ain't into it. There's a degree of acting in fight scenes that a lot of stars never picked up on. Sammo's choreography didn't pick up steam until SHAOLIN PLOT, because he was blessed with working with the likes of Casanova Wong and Chen Sing. Mao Ying looked better in THE HIMALAYAN because Sammo improved. I see that its trendy on this board to snipe Bruce's stuff. This is because of overexposure and, in the case of you youngins, you saw the more exciting likes of Jackie or Jet before Bruce. Taken within the context of the 70s, Bruce's movies hold up well. Compared to the 80s, yeah, they look creaky. But Bruce simply had a presence and credibility (he looked like he could fight, and that had a lot to do with his massive international success) that a lot of later stars lacked. None of his movies would make my top 20, but I respect and appreciate what his movies brought to the table. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Markgway Posted May 22, 2010 Share Posted May 22, 2010 Sammo's choreography didn't pick up steam until SHAOLIN PLOT I would agree with that. Sammo was constantly learning and impoving his skills. He didn't start as a great choreographer the way Bruce did - but by 1977 and the likes of Iron-Fisted Monk etc you could see the vast improvement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Jesse Smooth Posted May 22, 2010 Member Share Posted May 22, 2010 The difference between the likes of HAPKIDO and ENTER THE DRAGON is that Mao Ying never looks like she's fighting. Nobody in the cast can throw a stage punch worth a shit, and with the exception of Whang Ing Sik, all are immensely bad kickers. Everytime Bruce threw a punch or kick, he looked like he meant it, which I attribute to his early acting training and his experience in Hollywood with stunt crews. He knew how to sell the moves for the camera. Plus, he was simply more athletic than the average action star in HK and it shows. Look at the non-Bruce fights in BIG BOSS, and James Tien just ain't into it. There's a degree of acting in fight scenes that a lot of stars never picked up on. Sammo's choreography didn't pick up steam until SHAOLIN PLOT, because he was blessed with working with the likes of Casanova Wong and Chen Sing. Mao Ying looked better in THE HIMALAYAN because Sammo improved. I see that its trendy on this board to snipe Bruce's stuff. This is because of overexposure and, in the case of you youngins, you saw the more exciting likes of Jackie or Jet before Bruce. Taken within the context of the 70s, Bruce's movies hold up well. Compared to the 80s, yeah, they look creaky. But Bruce simply had a presence and credibility (he looked like he could fight, and that had a lot to do with his massive international success) that a lot of later stars lacked. None of his movies would make my top 20, but I respect and appreciate what his movies brought to the table. Spot on! The overexposure, Bruce Li movies and the watering down by Concord Moon made Bruce seem nonrelevant these days, but Bruce Lee is important now as he was back then. No matter how long time goes, Bruce Lee will be the most important martial arts star of all-time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Fist Of Boss Posted May 22, 2010 Member Share Posted May 22, 2010 Spot on! The overexposure, Bruce Li movies and the watering down by Concord Moon made Bruce seem nonrelevant these days, but Bruce Lee is important now as he was back then. No matter how long time goes, Bruce Lee will be the most important martial arts star of all-time. Yeah and for few crap movies:sad:.... Lee is great,movies not Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Morgoth Bauglir Posted May 22, 2010 Member Share Posted May 22, 2010 I never understood the hate for Bruce Lee movies on this forum. Fist of Fury is one of my favorite movies of all time. Way of the Dragon has some good comedy, acting, and of course good fights. Enter the Dragon feels like a James Bond movie, but it’s better than any Bond movie I’ve seen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Fist Of Boss Posted May 22, 2010 Member Share Posted May 22, 2010 I never understood the hate for Bruce Lee movies on this forum. Fist of Fury is one of my favorite movies of all time. Way of the Dragon has some good comedy, acting, and of course good fights. Enter the Dragon feels like a James Bond movie, but it’s better than any Bond movie I’ve seen. I have never loved kungfu movies where main lead is too powerful and opponents just stand still waiting to be kicked... Without great figjts kf movie not enjoyable so much... Like said in earlier post Lee is great,movies he starred in are not... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Morgoth Bauglir Posted May 22, 2010 Member Share Posted May 22, 2010 Bob Baker, Bob Wall, Chuck Norris, Dan Inosanto, Kareem Abdul Jabaar… Bruce has had a lot of great fights on screen IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member niro Posted May 22, 2010 Member Share Posted May 22, 2010 I watched Enter The Dragon again today after a long long time and its still not boring to watch. When i was a kid they showed this annually and every year I would watch this with my family, so I have a good affection for it just like the other films they showed annually on tv like Indiana Jones and Goonies. While watching it only fault I found, and its a fault which is present in most films, was in the mirror room the villain had 2 great opportunites to kill the main character aka bruce but for some unknown reason he didnt. Anyway this is still one of my favourite martial arts films and will be forever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member silver hermit Posted May 22, 2010 Member Share Posted May 22, 2010 I don't agree... I think, for an example, the end fight in When Taekwondo Strikes is waaaaaay better than anything you find in Enter The Dragon, and that was the same year. I also think Hapkido had better action than both Fist Of Fury and Way Of The Dragon. But then again, I rate Sammo mile high above Bruce as an action director. Sammo made everyone shine, Bruce made no one shine but himself. That is fact, that even the most ardent BL fan can't refute! the lack of HK style action was due to US post production me thinks. i can't imagine whats on the cutting room floor. i wish bruce was as self consumed as jackie chan in that case and did his own HK version like jackie did with the protector but the fact its a US production stood in the way of that and i'm sure it prevented many things the hong kongese might have done. as for bruce only letting himself shine i don't agree with that. dan insanto got to beat on james tien but tein's performance was so poor it brought the scene down a level. the bruce vs chuck was a prime example of bruce letting someone get their shine. in fact chuck had a 30 year career based on that shine. had game of death been completed i think the martial artists that did not have a chance to do their parts would have got their shine on as well. the whole concept of game of death was based on using him influence to give martial artists a chance to be seen and appreciated. we have to also remember bruce is the hero and good defeats evil everytime. i do however agree sammo was a better choregrapher over all in his career i would rate him 2nd best all time after lau kar leung. but in the words of lau kar leung bruce lee was the only person to ever show real kung fu on screen. real kung fu might not be so pretty on screen as opera based action that defined the shapes era but bruce mangaged to capture the esoteric inner workings, mind state, aplication and intensity of great kung fu aswell as his mastery of mind over matter. in fact almost 40 years later you can almost feel the chi building up inside yourself as if you were a martial artist in his fights. the fact remains that this is all hersay and spectulation as all bruce lee conversations seem to break down into. I have never loved kungfu movies where main lead is too powerful and opponents just stand still waiting to be kicked... Without great figjts kf movie not enjoyable so much... Like said in earlier post Lee is great,movies he starred in are not... don't blame bruce blame Han Ying Chieh!!! i know bruce didn't care for that choreography either. when bruce was able to control his own action it got more realistic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Fist Of Boss Posted May 23, 2010 Member Share Posted May 23, 2010 Kareem Abdul Jabaar."lost footage" fight is indeed good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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