I finally watched Enter The Dragon again

[kungfusamurai]

I probably should have watched it before asking those obvious questions in the GoD 2 thread.

I thought Enter The Dragon was entertaining. It flowed nicely, and it made 1 1/2hrs go by really fast. But was it a great film? No.

Here are some observations:

1. I noticed Bruce Lee's character never really talks to John Saxon's character or Jim Kelly's character. Other than the praying mantis fight on the boat, and the nods at the end, they never actually have a conversation with each other. Saxon and Kelly have all kinds of character interplays, but Bruce is completely isolated from them, which is too bad.

2. I watched the special edition version and noticed some choppy editing, but I think it may have been a problem with the SE and not with the original film edit. I'll have to try getting the original version to see if that's the case.

3. I never understood why Han killed Kelly. Was it really because he was seen outside? The guards would have told Han it was Lee who attacked them outside. Also, why did that leave that cave entrance wide open when Han would have heard from the guards that's where Lee had snuck in the first time?

4. There's a scene where Mr Han shows off his daughters to Roper, and says they're his personal bodyguards. Where the heck were they in the finale? Wouldn't it have made sense for them to have come out and attacked Lee to protect Han?

5. The room of mirrors kind of looks cool, but is a little silly. I mean, what was that place supposed to be? Did he have that room built especially for ambushing people? It had no other practical use.

6. The camera work for the film was pretty lazy. There were places where the fighting was not framed properly (too close), and during some fight scenes the camera was pointed somewhere else other than at Bruce. And it was too stiff when it should be moving around to follow the action.

7. The title of the film 'Enter The Dragon' doesn't mean anything in the film itself. But I'm guessing it was another way of saying 'introducing bruce (his chinese name) lee'. Since he died soon after making it, maybe it should have been called 'Exit The Dragon' (sorry bad joke).

Overall, I think of this film as an okay movie, but it's not a great example of good asian kung fu film making, not by far. It has some good moments, but even for a hollywood film, it has a B movie feel about it. But it is a Top 10 hollywood martial arts film, mainly for the impact it had on movie audiences, introducing them to Bruce Lee and kung fu films.

KFS

[Guest WuxiaFan]

I thought Enter The Dragon was entertaining. It flowed nicely, and it made 1 1/2hrs go by really fast. But was it a great film? No.

Yes, it's a classic.

1. I noticed Bruce Lee's character never really talks to John Saxon's character or Jim Kelly's character. Other than the praying mantis fight on the boat, and the nods at the end, they never actually have a conversation with each other. Saxon and Kelly have all kinds of character interplays, but Bruce is completely isolated from them, which is too bad.

So what. "Mr. Lee" (his character's name) was traveling to Han's island for one reason only - to avenge his sister's death; not to make friends. I never thought anything of it.

2. I watched the special edition version and noticed some choppy editing, but I think it may have been a problem with the SE and not with the original film edit. I'll have to try getting the original version to see if that's the case.

Agree. Let us know what you see.

3. I never understood why Han killed Kelly. Was it really because he was seen outside? The guards would have told Han it was Lee who attacked them outside. Also, why did that leave that cave entrance wide open when Han would have heard from the guards that's where Lee had snuck in the first time?

Han killed Williams (Jim Kelly) because he would not tell Han that he saw Lee outside. Han could give a rip about his guards - that's why he let Bolo (yeah!) kill them. The flower pots were there to hide the snake, which is why there were no guards there, IMO.

4. There's a scene where Mr Han shows off his daughters to Roper, and says they're his personal bodyguards. Where the heck were they in the finale? Wouldn't it have made sense for them to have come out and attacked Lee to protect Han?

Agree with you on that! However, but Lee never fought women, so perhaps that was on purpose or it was just missed in the script.

5. The room of mirrors kind of looks cool, but is a little silly. I mean, what was that place supposed to be? Did he have that room built especially for ambushing people? It had no other practical use.

You could probably pick out all kinds of things in Han's mansion that didn't make sense! Here's an interesting tidbit from The Dragon that explains it:

Enter The Dragon. After hearing what Shih Kien proposed to Bruce to add to their fight scene only to have Bob Clouse say no mas-their fight ended up being very anti-climatic.

(Kien proposed that he and Bruce use more traditional Shaolin Kung Fu & grappling techniques, and Clouse opted for the fake hand and mirrored room, ala Dr. No. Making it more Hollywood/Bond send up.)

6. The camera work for the film was pretty lazy. There were places where the fighting was not framed properly (too close), and during some fight scenes the camera was pointed somewhere else other than at Bruce. And it was too stiff when it should be moving around to follow the action.

Agree. In the big fight with the guards, the shot was too close on Bruce and you could hardly see what he was doing! That could have been shot much better!

7. The title of the film 'Enter The Dragon' doesn't mean anything in the film itself. But I'm guessing it was another way of saying 'introducing bruce (his chinese name) lee'. Since he died soon after making it, maybe it should have been called 'Exit The Dragon' (sorry bad joke).

Um... yeah, bad joke.

ENTER THE DRAGON is one of the coolest and most well known movie titles EVER! C'mon!

Overall, I think of this film as an okay movie, but it's not a great example of good asian kung fu film making, not by far. It has some good moments, but even for a hollywood film, it has a B movie feel about it. But it is a Top 10 hollywood martial arts film, mainly for the impact it had on movie audiences, introducing them to Bruce Lee and kung fu films.

ENTER THE DRAGON is an absolute classic and Bruce was superb in it. You have to take it for what it is and not watch it today expecting the movie to have academy award winning editing, cinematography, writing, and directing. EOD has so many classic lines, so many memorable moments, and its the only Bruce Lee movie out of his 5 where we get to hear Bruce's actual voice on film. It's my second favorite behind FIST OF FURY.

[Space]

Only thing I wish it had was more of Sammo and Jackie, who were bit players!

Also, Lam Ching Ying was an assistant action director and bit player in the movie, very cool wish he had some real screen time in it.

But, as a complete movie, it has to be ranked at the top for Bruce, whose skills in it are prime. A completed Game of Death would likely have bested it for the amount of fighting and techniques shown off, but we'll never know...

[Reel Power Stunts]

2. I watched the special edition version and noticed some choppy editing, but I think it may have been a problem with the SE and not with the original film edit. I'll have to try getting the original version to see if that's the case.

KFS

I always thought the worst edit is when Mei Ling (Betty Chung) visits Lee in his room ("Hush, hush. Let's be quiet!"). One moment they are standing...the next, they're sitting. Jump Cut!

[wizard12220]

I'm totally agree with WuxiaFan.

It's still my second favourite Bruce Lee movie after Fist Of Fury and I think it is really good.

[kungfusamurai]

I always thought the worst edit is when Mei Ling (Betty Chung) visits Lee in his room ("Hush, hush. Let's be quiet!"). One moment they are standing...the next, they're sitting. Jump Cut!

Yes, that was a really bad one. But was it Clouse's fault or the fault of the SE editors?

KFS

[kungfusamurai]

Don't get me wrong guys, I'm not hating on ETD. It's a great film for introducing people to the genre. But if you look at it objectively, not look at it as a Bruce Lee film (he only did 4 complete films, so there aren't many to judge against), it's an okay-made film. I'm judging either as a martial arts film, and as a Hollywood film.

I just remembered a bad continuity part. When Bruce tricks the Aussie guy to get onto the small boat, you never see that guy when the big boat docks at Han's place. Did they eventually let go of the rope and leave him adrift in the bay? You do see him later fighting Jim Kelly in the first round of fighting.

Wuxiafan - for the point about Lee's character not interacting with Saxon and Kelly's characters, I think it would have given Lee more opportunity to showcase his acting skills with an actor like John Saxon. His intentions for going to Han's island were not to just to avenge his sister. It was O'Hara and the other thugs who chased her around and drove her to commit suicide, not Han himself. It's hard to say when her death occurred, right around the time they asked him to go to Han's island or months or years before. Plus Lee was a Shaolin monk, so he wasn't supposed to be motivated to kill. At least, not to kill Han.

Why Han killed Kelly doesn't really make sense. Lee's character did not kill the guards. He beat them up. They could have told Mr Han that it was Lee who attacked them. Not only did they not do that, they also didn't secure that entry point that Lee used to sneak into the caves earlier. The reasons for killing Kelly's character were not well written.

Thank you for that quote on the mirror room. I think I read that somewhere else before. I think it looks interesting on first viewing, and it probably was more interesting for western audiences and their sensibilities, but it's just another one of those head scratchers I think it would have been more to Clouse's credit if they had a short sequence where it was toured earlier with Roper and some reasonable explanation was made for having a room with all those mirrors, like it was a room for counting money, and they wanted to see everything.

Space -> Sammo's part was specifically added to the film by Bruce himself. I think it was an afterthought for the filmmakers. It was the last part to be made, if I'm not mistaken. Otherwise, Sammo would have been among the stunt guys throughout the movie, like Lam Ching Ying, Yuen Wah, Billy Chan, Mars, etc... Lam Ching Ying and Yuen Wah were probably the most visible, since they also doubled for Han and Lee respectively.

KFS

[Reel Power Stunts]

The "Let's be quiet" jump cut is NOT just in the SE. Interestingly - different angles/footage from that scene end up in "Tower of Death/GOD2" if I'm not mistaken.

I didn't think you were trying to hate on "Enter". It's in many ways a hokey film with plenty of shortcomings...and still a classic I'll never tire of watching.

[Karlos]

For sure, Enter has it's flaws - like pretty much all films.

The "Han killing Williams" bit has always bugged me - perhaps it was down to hasty rewrites that were required when John Saxon threw a hissy fit and demanded it was Williams who died, and not, as originally written, his character, Roper?

If not, it could be argued that Han simply freaks out - which doesn't quite fit his character. Killing a guest, part way thru his tournament? Seems a bit OTT.

Also, when Bruce kills O'Hara - O'Hara dies not really knowing why, and Bruce simply does not tell him that he's taking revenge for his sister - I have often thought it was a missed opportunity, it's almost thrown away.

Still, it's a stone cold classic, even if some of it is, as Williams might say, "sloppy"!!

[Guest Markgway]

1. I noticed Bruce Lee's character never really talks to John Saxon's character or Jim Kelly's character. Other than the praying mantis fight on the boat, and the nods at the end, they never actually have a conversation with each other. Saxon and Kelly have all kinds of character interplays, but Bruce is completely isolated from them, which is too bad.

Less dialogue for Bruce to cope with. Also strengthens the silent but deadly aura. He doesn't do chatty but he WILL snap your spine.

I watched the special edition version and noticed some choppy editing, but I think it may have been a problem with the SE and not with the original film edit. I'll have to try getting the original version to see if that's the case.

Which scenes specifically because the new edits only affect two scenes.

I never understood why Han killed Kelly.

Because he's a mad bastard.

Was it really because he was seen outside?

Yes.

The guards would have told Han it was Lee who attacked them outside.

They didn't see their attacker.

Also, why did that leave that cave entrance wide open when Han would have heard from the guards that's where Lee had snuck in the first time?

Don't know if that's ever occured to me... but, hey, all evil geniuses get sloppy once in a while.

There's a scene where Mr Han shows off his daughters to Roper, and says they're his personal bodyguards. Where the heck were they in the finale? Wouldn't it have made sense for them to have come out and attacked Lee to protect Han?

Good point. Ask the scriptwriter. Maybe Betty Chung beat the shit out of them in a deleted scene?

The room of mirrors kind of looks cool, but is a little silly. I mean, what was that place supposed to be? Did he have that room built especially for ambushing people? It had no other practical use.

Han used to work in a carnival.

(OK. I made that up).

Maybe he's really vain? He probably has one above his bed too.

The camera work for the film was pretty lazy. There were places where the fighting was not framed properly (too close), and during some fight scenes the camera was pointed somewhere else other than at Bruce. And it was too stiff when it should be moving around to follow the action.

Step forward Messers Clouse and Hubbs.

The title of the film 'Enter The Dragon' doesn't mean anything in the film itself. But I'm guessing it was another way of saying 'introducing bruce (his chinese name) lee'.

Yes - I think you're starting to nitpick.

Since he died soon after making it, maybe it should have been called 'Exit The Dragon' (sorry bad joke).

Yes - it is.

[Guest Markgway]

I always thought the worst edit is when Mei Ling (Betty Chung) visits Lee in his room ("Hush, hush. Let's be quiet!"). One moment they are standing...the next, they're sitting. Jump Cut!

That scene was originally longer - as has been said you can see some additional footage from it Tower of Death. I suspect removing chunks of expository dialogue necessitated the jump cut. It's a shame Warners have never made this footage public (it's not like they haven't milked the film enough).

[lillippa328]

to be honest....i started watching jackie and jet, then transitioned into Shaw Bros and Sammo stuff before i ever sat down and watched a Bruce Lee movie....and when I did, I was highly dissapointed....i mean, all the hype that people put around his movies you would think the choreography and fight scenes were somthing that would never be topped, but when I originally watched them, i was bored, dozed off, and was confused at what was so great about the films....i felt them lame...

i had to learn to appreciate them for what they did for the genre, but I will not sit here and lie to myself, tryiing to convince myself that these films are THAT entertaining as everybody says....sorry its the truth.....if I have the chance to sit down and watch Enter the Dragon or Shaolin vs Lama/ Fist of Legend, Drunken Master, The Victim, hell, some crap load of other movies, i would choose the other movie!!

still, i respect Bruce and all he has done and won, but, sorry, his movies arnt that sweet to me

[kungfusamurai]

Less dialogue for Bruce to cope with. Also strengthens the silent but deadly aura. He doesn't do chatty but he WILL snap your spine.

True, it makes him into a super human entity on another level from the other two. But it was also a missed opportunity for Bruce to show off a little more of his acting chops. I mean, it was his big break, after all!

Which scenes specifically because the new edits only affect two scenes.

Someone mentioned the scene with Mei Ling in Lee's room. I think there was another during the room of mirrors sequence. Then the odd edit where you see someone walking by and then Lee sneaking past that same area avoiding them.

They didn't see their attacker.

He didn't come of from behind, they fought face to face. Well, more like fist to face.

Don't know if that's ever occured to me... but, hey, all evil geniuses get sloppy once in a while.

True. Heck the guards were blind most of the time, not seeing the dangling rope the second time he entered the cave, and when he opens to the door to toss in the cobra.

Good point. Ask the scriptwriter. Maybe Betty Chung beat the shit out of them in a deleted scene?

She wasn't a daughter, but she was his confident. I can't remember her relation to his character, they clearly knew each other from before. I still couldn't figure out if he was a cop living as a monk.

Han used to work in a carnival.

(OK. I made that up).

Maybe he's really vain? He probably has one above his bed too.

Heh, that would have been funny if they had mirrors that made them look fat and skinny during that fight. And then when Lee thinks he's look at a fat reflection, out pops Sammo doing his Enter The Fat Dragon imitation.

KFS

[kungfusamurai]

...

still, i respect Bruce and all he has done and won, but, sorry, his movies arnt that sweet to me

That's cool. I still think that Bruce Lee was bigger than life. His movies were done at a time when the kung fu film hadn't been fully developed to the extent that it was in the late 70s, in terms of showing 'realism'. In 1971, it was still about the swordplay and weapons, with the occasionally fist fight movie like Chinese Boxer.

I guess if ETD had been done by Peckinpah, for example, or Leone, it might have been a little better in the filming and editing department. Clouse did what he could with what he had to work with, and the various constraints, like Saxon apparently only being available for a week or two. But martial arts and action films didn't have to be campy to be considered good. There's a whole bunch of great samurai films from Japan that can attest to that. I'm just trying to look beyond the mystique of the film, and looking at it from a critical eye, and not just being in awe of seeing Bruce on the screen. It was a good starting point for Bruce if he was aiming to be more 'hollywood'. But I don't rate it in my top 10 of greatest martial arts movies of all time. Fist of Fury would be in there, that's for sure.

KFS

[KyFi]

to be honest....i started watching jackie and jet, then transitioned into Shaw Bros and Sammo stuff before i ever sat down and watched a Bruce Lee movie....and when I did, I was highly dissapointed....i mean, all the hype that people put around his movies you would think the choreography and fight scenes were somthing that would never be topped, but when I originally watched them, i was bored, dozed off, and was confused at what was so great about the films....i felt them lame...

i had to learn to appreciate them for what they did for the genre, but I will not sit here and lie to myself, tryiing to convince myself that these films are THAT entertaining as everybody says....sorry its the truth.....if I have the chance to sit down and watch Enter the Dragon or Shaolin vs Lama/ Fist of Legend, Drunken Master, The Victim, hell, some crap load of other movies, i would choose the other movie!!

I'm coming from a fairly similar position, which is kind of odd since I've been watching kung fu movies since the early 80's. I was much more familiar with Shaws and other GH movies, and generally thought Bruce was overrated---- and it's really only been within the last 5 years or so that I've gotten the box set and ETD and really watched all of Bruce's movies in their entirety. I still think Bruce's movies were mostly not that great, and the choreography was not groundbreaking----but I have come to appreciate the awesome screen presence and physicality of Bruce himself. I get annoyed when people call ETD "the greatest kung fu movie ever", but I do now enjoy it as an iconic, fun film with a great 70's HK kung fu vibe.

[Space]

to be honest....i started watching jackie and jet, then transitioned into Shaw Bros and Sammo stuff before i ever sat down and watched a Bruce Lee movie....and when I did, I was highly dissapointed....i mean, all the hype that people put around his movies you would think the choreography and fight scenes were somthing that would never be topped, but when I originally watched them, i was bored, dozed off, and was confused at what was so great about the films....i felt them lame...

Honestly, and I might get crucified for this, but I don't feel many martial arts movies before the late '70s actually had great choreography. Bruce was amazing in those movies, despite the (now) simple fight choreography (again, that's compared to what followed, which isn't quite fair). Reading the Tao of Jeet Kune Do and watching Bruce's training off-screen showed that there was, in Shonie Carter's words, "more to him than just being Tommy Tough-Ass."

Compare the quality of the screen fights in what's left of Game of Death (the real footage) to the Big Boss and it's obvious Bruce's movies were just getting better. Besides, as much as I love the opera-styled fights, he wasn't about that stuff, just simple, direct stuff with power.

P.S. I rewatch movies like Drunken Master and Magnificent Butcher more than I do Bruce movies, for entertainment value, but have no doubt Bruce was the best on-screen fighter of his time and even until recently, especially seeing how many styles he cross-trained in. Was way ahead of his time, and actually knew how to fight. As a personality, it's hard to find someone more engaging.

Kungfusamurai---> I didn't know that, thanks, that's really cool! Sammo looks so odd in the movie, maybe it's the hair and his facial expression.

[thehangman]

i never liked the scene where Roper kills bolo just seems to jump then he is on the floor!

[shukocarl]

That scene was originally longer - as has been said you can see some additional footage from it Tower of Death. I suspect removing chunks of expository dialogue necessitated the jump cut. It's a shame Warners have never made this footage public (it's not like they haven't milked the film enough).

Again, in the original script and later novel, Mai Ling goes around the room extinguishing all the lights and( possibly) looking for microphones ( a la 'Kentucky Fried Movie'!). You'll notice the room is darker after the jump cut and they are sat down.

[loempiavreter]

ETD was my first kung fu movie, back then it was my favorite movie, but watching now I just found it boring.

I feel Game of Death and Circle of Iron would have been awesome movies if Bruce where alive and quite possibly my favorite ones.

The footage of Game of Death makes me tingly. Fist of Fury is def his best movie, but I feel that movie while great, mist personas. It looked to realistic for my taste, Game of Death had all these characters in that tower. Now that Circle of Iron is going to be remade (hopefully in Bruce's originally vision), I'm hoping for a Game of Death remake and in some sort of 2d animation style (I'll probably get crucified here )?

[kungfusamurai]

Does anyone know if the non-special edition cut of the film is kicking around? I don't think it's possible to find it in North America, but what about the chinese releases? I figure they are using the original cantonese and mandarin audio dubs, and didn't bother with doing those for the added Special Edition parts.

There was the old Universe Laser DVD, and now there's the HK Blu Ray. Are they non-special edition cuts?

KFS

[kungfusamurai]

Kungfusamurai---> I didn't know that, thanks, that's really cool! Sammo looks so odd in the movie, maybe it's the hair and his facial expression.

He also seemed to be much thinner than in his other films of that era, that's why later on when I really became familiar with his work, I didn't even realize that was him fighting Bruce until I revisited the film. From what I've heard and read, Bruce felt the beginning of the film was too slow, and I guess he wanted to showcase his fighting skills early on, rather than have the audience wait until that first time he opens up on the guards. I think that probably was done to appease the HK audiences familiar with him, as well as giving Sammo a part in the movie. If it was just for international audiences, perhaps waiting until later in the film to showcase his skills might not have been such a bad thing.

KFS

[Guest Markgway]

He didn't come of from behind, they fought face to face. Well, more like fist to face.

I didn't think the guards got a good look at him.

She wasn't a daughter, but she was his confident. I can't remember her relation to his character, they clearly knew each other from before. I still couldn't figure out if he was a cop living as a monk.

I've seen the movie more times that I care to remember. I know Betty Chung wasn't one of Han's daughters - I'm saying maybe she beat the shit out of Han's daughters in a deleted scene? Either before or after she frees the men from the locked cages. She's an agent sent by Braithwaite - she's never met Bruce before but he knows she's his contact. They should've let her kick a little ass... then had a spin-off:

Betty Chung in Enter the Dragoness.

[Guest Markgway]

Again, in the original script and later novel, Mai Ling goes around the room extinguishing all the lights and( possibly) looking for microphones ( a la 'Kentucky Fried Movie'!). You'll notice the room is darker after the jump cut and they are sat down.

Right. I knew the scene was shortened but I wasn't sure exactly what had gone. Thanks.

Does anyone know if the non-special edition cut of the film is kicking around?

Only on VHS and LD. The Chinese versions are all dubbed into Chinese and the extended Asian cut. It's a shame because I prefer the Theatrical Cut in Mono. But Warners won't put it out on disc.

Compare the quality of the screen fights in what's left of Game of Death (the real footage) to the Big Boss and it's obvious Bruce's movies were just getting better. Besides, as much as I love the opera-styled fights, he wasn't about that stuff, just simple, direct stuff with power.

That 40 mins of restored GOD footage is without a doubt Bruce's finest work as director and choreographer. It shows how far ahead of the curve he was even in 1972. Thank God his editing notes survived.

[dionbrother]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Space View Post

Compare the quality of the screen fights in what's left of Game of Death (the real footage) to the Big Boss and it's obvious Bruce's movies were just getting better. Besides, as much as I love the opera-styled fights, he wasn't about that stuff, just simple, direct stuff with power.

That 40 mins of restored GOD footage is without a doubt Bruce's finest work as director and choreographer. It shows how far ahead of the curve he was even in 1972. Thank God his editing notes survived.

Disagree completely. The GAME OF DEATH stuff always looked liked test footage to me. WIth the exception of the Inosanto fight, not much flow to them. His best work was WAY OF THE DRAGON. It was funny and fast, and never too serious. I think Tang Lung was closer to the real Bruce described by his friends.

[Guest Markgway]

Polarised opinions. That's cool. That's cool.