Why Born Invincible is one AWFUL movie!

[Apanblod]

Born Invincible is a fun watch for me, not the best, but definitely cool. Of course it's not the definitive version without the original audio, and in it's original aspect ratio. The voices are just the annoying English dub. The day we see it in it's original glory will be the day we can appreciated it and place it in it's proper position amongst the old school classics.

Uhm, well actually, I think BI benefits from having a cheep english cheesy dub rather than the original one. Everything about the movie (except for the fighting) is laughable already, and goes hand in hand with the hilarious dialogue and silly voices. It would be nice, of course, to at least have the option to choose between the English and Chinese language track.

[jmungus]

Born Invincible is a fun watch for me, not the best, but definitely cool. Of course it's not the definitive version without the original audio, and in it's original aspect ratio. The voices are just the annoying English dub. The day we see it in it's original glory will be the day we can appreciated it and place it in it's proper position amongst the old school classics.

spot on.

fullscreen chop jobs often tend to distort the cinematography as intended and executed, especially in kung fu flix. ie i`ll always remember how i instantly liked dynamite trio twice as much when i finally got my hands on a wide print.

panning, zooming, certain frames and cuts... it all falls victim to that idiotic reformatting, no way to judge a kf movie properly in fullscreen format.

dubs suck period. but thats another story. i recall the BI dub as being particularly crappy.

as for carter- yes his facial expressions come across as awkward, no hes not a good actor, didnt s/o mention his breathing technique? i 2nd that, some of his wacky expressions simply derive from distinctive proper breathing while performing his moves.

imo, hes too good an on screen fighter to be hated, but too bad an onscreen fighter to be loved. that being said, i can understand why some ppl would hate the guy.

in BI, im not too fond of him and the way they made his character out to be.

as for BI in general- what exactly makes the screenplay and direction so different from other old school cheapos to bash it ? its hardly any better or worse than the majority of em. thats independant style old school fu for ya. love it or leave it.

theres a bunch of wicked fights in BI and theres no way to deny that, theres also ppl other than carter acting in the movie & they make for a decent cast imo.

if i could only get a wide print with original audio and subs, theres even a chance i`d gain some serious respect for it.

ps: john liu can be awesome just as he can be boring; but one thing he should definitely have done- always, ALWAYS act with a bag over his head. cant stand his smirk and any other attempts of him pulling faces. him being too often too expressionless isnt the solution either.

couldnt bring myself to appreciate the opening sequence of 8DPF either. a true "worst sound stage ever" candidate. im suffering through it each and every time i watch this gem of a flick.

[Tosh]

I liked Born Invincible, been a long time since I watched it, the diagram Wong made while he was fighting is something that sticks out all these years later, on the other hand(from what I remember) it's not that great of a movie, but I agree no worse than other low budget Indys at the time. The dub is downright painful.

I've always seen Carter Wong as a heavy like Johnny Wang Lung Wei, he looks like he could go through you, he doesn't need fancy kicks or acrobatics, he's at his best as a villain.

I've watched 8DPF 100 times and I never noticed the blade breaking lol, but christ if I was to sit and pick apart these movies I'd be here for ages.

[moongirl]

What I don't get, though, is why this movie above all other seems to create the most controversy?! I've been reading threads like this one on the forum for YEARS now! There must be other movies that are hated by people--why does this one seem to make people SO enraged?

[Shaolin Chamber 36]

After many years, because of this thread, I rewatched the first hour if this film earlier tonight. I only watched the first hour because lately it seems I am only able to enjoy a movie while I am walking on the treadmill. I will finish it up tomorrow, in which I will report back on how I feel about this movie now, after so many years. Keep in mind, prior to this "rewatch", I was PRO-Born Invincible. I do remember really enjoying the film.

On a side note, one of the first old school Kung Fu movies I seen, and loved, was 18 Bronzemen, from that day forward, I was a definite fan of Carter Wong.

[Killer Meteor]

What I don't get, though, is why this movie above all other seems to create the most controversy?! I've been reading threads like this one on the forum for YEARS now! There must be other movies that are hated by people--why does this one seem to make people SO enraged?

Mainly because former poster Falkor used to worship this movie, and be a pain to anyone who disagreed.

[luckystars]

Mainly because former poster Falkor used to worship this movie, and be a pain to anyone who disagreed.

Falkor should've gone on The Apprentice. He can con anyone out of money.

Support legit releases, only way to get quality stuff released and 2 fingers up at the bootleggers.

[Shaolin Chamber 36]

UPDATE: I finished up watching Born Invincible earlier tonight. After many years from had seeing it originally, I only remembered I enjoyed it, but could not recollect all the details.

Let me start by saying Born Invincible made in 1978, Directed by Joseph Kuo, Choreographed by Yuen Wo-Ping, Starring Carter Wong, Lo Lieh, Mark Long, Jack Long, Cory Yuen, Yuen Shun-Yi and Lung Fei ... IS A BONAFIDE CLASSIC KUNG FU MOVIE, without a doubt!

From any angle you look at it, it is a classic. The story line (simple as it is), the villains, the training scenes, the fighting, the dubbing with the familiar voices often heard in MANY films (minus the Carter Wong and Lo Lieh characters), what else could you ask for?

NOW, as far as the horrendous voices used for Carter Wong and Lo Lieh's characters, the rest of the cast had CLASSIC dubbing. BUT, in true fairness, Carter's "high pitched" voice was explained at the beginning of the movie, that it was brought on by his extensive training. Not only that, in the end fight, he was being made fun of about his voice, which sort of made it ok that he had a messed up voice to begin with.

NEXT, the "sound" that is heard when Carter Wong's character does his Tai Chi move, it is heard throughout the film a total of 20 times (and yes I counted). It may be annoying to some, but it really wasn't that bad.It was definitely used more in the first half of the film than in the second half. There was even one fight he had, that he did not do "that move (with sound)" once.

So, for those of you that REALLY dislike, or even HATE this movie, is it really only because of the 2 characters awful voices and the sound used for Carter's character? If you were to take those things out, or replaced them, would you STILL not like the movie?

I really don't get it. I have no problem with anyone that DOES not like this movie, I respect everyones right to like or dislike a film, I just don't see too many overwhelmingly faults with the film, besides the 2 I mentioned.

Anyways, I would gladly watch this film again, whenever I can get my hands on the widescreen version. Does anyone know, if the Cantonese version of this movie still includes Carter's "sound effect"? Just curious?

This was not a review, but still, I will rate it.. out of a perfect score of 5/5 .. I'll give this bad boy a solid 4.5/5!

[OpiumKungFuCracker]

^Thanks for dropping that knowledge on dem fools Shaolin Chamber 36!!!! Always appreciate your insights....

[ShaOW!linDude]

Maybe I need to revisit this at some point. I don't presently own it 'cause........

I watched this years ago and was not impressed with it, specifically Carter Wong's MA. Thus, I've never cared to own it. Don't remember this being choreographed by Yuen Wo-Ping but based on that alone I'd give it another viewing. So, if I ever find a used, cheap copy.....

[The Dragon]

I like the film, Cater Wong in his role, Mark and Jack Long.

It's a classic... Think I'll watch it tonight, after some Bruce Lee material.

[Morgoth Bauglir]

I've seen far far worse, Born Invincible is pretty good, and I'm a huge huge Carter Wong fan.... You can put Carter Wong in any movie and it'll be that much better....

Digging through some old threads and this comment hit me right in the face. I'm a pretty big Carter Wong fan, but I never thought I'd find a bigger Carter Wong fan than me. It's nice to know there's another forum member who I can add to the list of Carter Wong fans and who can see how great his performances are in movies like The Ming Patriots, Story of the Dragon, Shaolin Traitor, Snake in the Eagle's Shadow 2 and Fatal Flying Guillotines.

[kungfusamurai]

I remember when I made Falkor so mad he left KFC because I wouldn't come on his side about Born Invincible. He thought it was the best movie, and I thought it was terrible. A good kung fu movie should have smooth fight scenes, I didn't like the choppy style that Kuo used to speed up the fights.

[OpiumKungFuCracker]

I remember back in the Fandom days when I first came out and said that I thought Born Invincible was one awful and crap movie, many fans were so shocked as if I said something sacrilegious.

However over the years, I have noticed many other fans of the genre have also come to the realisation of how crap Born Invincible really is.

Anyway here are the original reasons from back in the day as to why I think Born Invincible is just so damn right AWFUL!!

1. Carter Wongs damn irritating high pitched shemale bitch voice!

2. That damn irritating 'pop goes the weasel' sound effect whenever Carter Wong brings his palm in front of his face.

3. Dreary ass plot.

4. Jack Longs irritating hairstyle which has a 'just escaped from a 70's mental asylum' look to it.

The only thing I remotely thought was a little cool was when Carter Wong would make the ying yang shape while fighting, but then he would open his mouth and that shemale voice would come out again!

I really cant undastand why so many people like this?????

Overall the movie is just AWFUL! An im glad im not the only one who now thinks so. Hay its not as bad as 'Invincible Kung Fu Trio,' but its still awful said way.

On a side note.. I used to have Born Invincible on dvd and even watched like 3/4 times.. I thought to myself maybe ill start to like it.. but alas eveytime I watched it was like I was torturing myself!!

Finally I traded it for a copy of Rebellious Reign an I have to say it was one of the BEST trades I have EVER made in my LIFE!! RR wipes the floor with BA an then kicks it ass out into orbit and hopefully into a black hole where it rightfully belongs!!

[GOLDEN DRAGON YIN-YANG]

Digging through some old threads and this comment hit me right in the face. I'm a pretty big Carter Wong fan, but I never thought I'd find a bigger Carter Wong fan than me. It's nice to know there's another forum member who I can add to the list of Carter Wong fans and who can see how great his performances are in movies like The Ming Patriots, Story of the Dragon, Shaolin Traitor, Snake in the Eagle's Shadow 2 and Fatal Flying Guillotines.

Morgoth Bauglir count me as a BIG Carter Wong fan.

Saw him the first time on the big screen I was blown away. It was the beginning of the movie when he helps an old man and a woman escape from the Ching's. Carter takes on the lot of troops and dies standing with multiple spears in him.

I do not remember the name of that movie.

The pic I posted looks like this was from that movie.

As far as Born Invincible it has been more that 20 years since I last saw it.

GD Y-Y

[paimeifist]

I haven't seen this in a while, but I remember thinking it was a slightly above average film. So as controversial among fans as it seems to be, I am pretty indifferent on it.

[Morgoth Bauglir]

Morgoth Bauglir count me as a BIG Carter Wong fan.

Saw him the first time on the big screen I was blown away. It was the beginning of the movie when he helps an old man and a woman escape from the Ching's. Carter takes on the lot of troops and dies standing with multiple spears in him.

I do not remember the name of that movie.

The pic I posted looks like this was from that movie.

As far as Born Invincible it has been more that 20 years since I last saw it.

GD Y-Y

Don't you worry you are high up on my list of Carter Wong fans. That amazing scene you describe is from Revenge of the Patriots aka The Ming Patriots.

[Drunken Monk]

I still think Carter Wong's shit. Actual kung fu practitioner or not, the guy always looks sloppy on screen and, for most part, his fights barely look choreographed. I'd say it's down to the choreographer, but it always seems to be Wong's fault.

That said, I still love "Born Invincible" and think it's a bonafide classic.

[Morgoth Bauglir]

I appreciate Carter more for his onscreen presence than his fighting. He's not in my top 10 fighters or anything, but he's had plenty of good fights. Have you seen Fatal Flying Guillotines?

[OpiumKungFuCracker]

Big trouble in little china. Nuff said.

[Drunken Monk]

I appreciate Carter more for his onscreen presence than his fighting. He's not in my top 10 fighters or anything, but he's had plenty of good fights. Have you seen Fatal Flying Guillotines?

It was one of the first kung fu VHS I ever bought and, back then, I actually really liked it. I don't think I've seen it since.

I just feel like the majority of his films feel, I don't know, half-cocked. Lazy even. He does have quite a presence but I find him particularly boring. More so than most actors.

[bigrogie]

I appreciate Carter more for his onscreen presence than his fighting. He's not in my top 10 fighters or anything, but he's had plenty of good fights. Have you seen Fatal Flying Guillotines?

That summarizes pretty well what I think of Carter Wong. Born Invincible is not a top 10 movie but it's a classic in my view.

[Morgoth Bauglir]

It was one of the first kung fu VHS I ever bought and, back then, I actually really liked it. I don't think I've seen it since.

I just feel like the majority of his films feel, I don't know, half-cocked. Lazy even. He does have quite a presence but I find him particularly boring. More so than most actors.

He definitely overworked himself and was in a lot of horrible movies. But he's had so many great roles and great performances, I can overlook it.

[NoKUNGFUforYU]

Carter Wong is an ardent practitioner and a promoter of full contact fighting. He is not a swishy shapes guy, a la Cheng Shiang or Kuo Chui, but he would probably crush those two at the same time. No, he can't do all that foo-foo stuff, but as far as punches, throws and arm locks, he looks legit on screen. He is a basher guy, not a shapes guy. He seems, from what I have read, to have started in Kung fu, then moved to Karate, Hapkido and TKD, unto Muay Thai. As far as Born Invincible goes, I haven't seen it, and I usually avoid dubs, if at all possible (an exception being Big Boss and Way of the Dragon, both crack me up). I just don't get all the Wong hate. He is a serious martial artist, and was usually looking for effective techniques, not flash. Not a great kicker, but as we have seen in Muay Thai and MMA, only 3 to 4 kicks really work anyway

( I have a black belt in old school TKD I could, in my youth, do jump double spin back, jump triple side kicks, etc, even up to my 40's. and so on, all with being 6 feet tall and a bad back. None of those kicks work as well as a good Muay Thai roundhouse.)

Still, I like a good, well choreographed shapes fight, especially from Pops or Gam Ming. Just felt you were beating up on poor Carter. Hell, the guy was great in Big Trouble in Little China!

[The Amazing Psycho Per]

I don't like Carter Wong's onscreen fighting (and I'm pretty sure I've already bashed him and the movie in this thread), but I must say this video of him, from 3 years ago, clearly backs the claims of him being a real life bonnafide kung fu master. At 64 he still had it.

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