Member Tosh Posted July 30, 2011 Member Share Posted July 30, 2011 So does anyone know what happens to the brother that gets carried off? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator thekfc Posted July 30, 2011 Moderator Share Posted July 30, 2011 Have "pops" ever said what his original plan for the movie was?. Here is behind the scenes footage - the one posted in the thread have been deleted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Fanboy1991 Posted July 31, 2011 Member Share Posted July 31, 2011 Yes the brother that gets carried off marries a Mongol princess in the Yang Legend. Its been adapted into many TV Shows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member 18JadeArafats Posted August 3, 2011 Member Share Posted August 3, 2011 Good to know! I always figured he was destined for some ghastly tortures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Alexandra Posted October 4, 2011 Member Share Posted October 4, 2011 Does Betty Pei Ti has some behind the scene footages? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member popsjnr Posted October 4, 2011 Member Share Posted October 4, 2011 I noticed people saying they are not going to buy this version coz it aint got a Canto soundtrack and they wont hear Gordon's voice??? Shaw brothers movies were shot SILENTLY and the voices you hear on the tracks AINT THE ACTORS IN THE 1ST PLACE in fact the only Shaws movie where it sounded like I heard Gordon's voice, was the Canto track of Return to 36th Chamber. As for me I prefer this movie in Mandarin, as its more authentic (and I prefer comedies in Canto and dramatic Shaws in Mandarin anyway) the Yang family WEREN'T a Southern family so WHY would they talk in Cantonese???? Another interesting point, on the back cover of this D.V.D release, there is a photo of Gordon thrusting his hard pole at Ko Fei who is knocking that very hard pole downwards with his own long hard rod, the greatest weapon fight put on film, but quite obviously Ko Fei is being doubled. This is Rocky Lee, who did all the splits in Pops movies (for the actors who couldn't do them), so when Wang Lung Wei's character Shan si-fu in Martial Club does the splits up the wall in the alleyway-that's Rocky Lee. He is also the guy who was crippled doing a stunt in the mid-eighties and put in a wheelchair, as usual the H.K. film industry didn't care and ignored his situation-but Pops being a cool guy had him on the sets of his late 80-early 90"s movies on FULL pay because he had a conscience. As for the behind the scenes stuff, there is one where Gordon is fighting Ko Fei (cool guy saw him on the M.T.R in H.K last year) and some broadsword wielding Chut Gar Dai Gee (with Ching dynasty pigtails wrapped round their heads???) that isnt in the movie in the 1st place. Ko Fei looks like he is playing a completely different character--younger and beardless. I believe this footage is from the 1981 version Pops tried to make under the title Heroic Family--certainly ALL the Fu Sheng footage was in the can in 81--check out the shots on the scans of Southern Screen editions June and July 1981 on the other Eight Diagram Pole Fighter thread posted yesterday. As for the Yang carried off (Siu Ho) I wouldn't believe a T.V series version of events as gospel truth (or do you believe Doctor Who is real and REALLY CAN TRAVEL THRU TIME) I cant see a patriotic anti Mongol soldier who's family has been brutally slain then happily marrying a Mongol??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member David Rees Posted October 4, 2011 Member Share Posted October 4, 2011 Interesting stuff popsjnr, thanks a lot. I wonder what other behind the scenes Shaw stuff is actually out there, i am still trying to track down the Citizen Shaw documentary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Markgway Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 I noticed people saying they are not going to buy this version coz it aint got a Canto soundtrack and they wont hear Gordon's voice??? Shaw brothers movies were shot SILENTLY and the voices you hear on the tracks AINT THE ACTORS IN THE 1ST PLACE in fact the only Shaws movie where it sounded like I heard Gordon's voice, was the Canto track of Return to 36th Chamber. As for me I prefer this movie in Mandarin, as its more authentic (and I prefer comedies in Canto and dramatic Shaws in Mandarin anyway) the Yang family WEREN'T a Southern family so WHY would they talk in Cantonese???? You may prefer to hear the film in Mandarin but that doesn't change the fact that it's a Cantonese film. Your personal preference really has nothing to do with it. It's a myth that Shaw actors never dubbed themselves. Occasionally they did. Pole Fighter was one such example and anyone who doubts this should go take a listen to the Cantonese track and then come back here and tell me that isn't Gordon Liu's own voice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member popsjnr Posted October 4, 2011 Member Share Posted October 4, 2011 You didn't read my comment properly-I said it sounded like Gordon's voice on the Canto track of Return to the 36th Chamber-dont remember hearing any similarity to it on Eight Diagram (had a Canto bootleg video for years and never once thought it was him talking-and I've been face to face with him so I should recognise him talking?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Markgway Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 I found Cantonese versions of both films mentioned. POLE FIGHTER http://v.pptv.com/show/m7Zx71e9LWty8Fg.html RETURN 36TH http://v.youku.com/v_show/id_XMTA2NDU2MzQ0.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Fanboy1991 Posted October 4, 2011 Member Share Posted October 4, 2011 I noticed people saying they are not going to buy this version coz it aint got a Canto soundtrack and they wont hear Gordon's voice??? Shaw brothers movies were shot SILENTLY and the voices you hear on the tracks AINT THE ACTORS IN THE 1ST PLACE in fact the only Shaws movie where it sounded like I heard Gordon's voice, was the Canto track of Return to 36th Chamber. As for me I prefer this movie in Mandarin, as its more authentic (and I prefer comedies in Canto and dramatic Shaws in Mandarin anyway) the Yang family WEREN'T a Southern family so WHY would they talk in Cantonese???? Another interesting point, on the back cover of this D.V.D release, there is a photo of Gordon thrusting his hard pole at Ko Fei who is knocking that very hard pole downwards with his own long hard rod, the greatest weapon fight put on film, but quite obviously Ko Fei is being doubled. This is Rocky Lee, who did all the splits in Pops movies (for the actors who couldn't do them), so when Wang Lung Wei's character Shan si-fu in Martial Club does the splits up the wall in the alleyway-that's Rocky Lee. He is also the guy who was crippled doing a stunt in the mid-eighties and put in a wheelchair, as usual the H.K. film industry didn't care and ignored his situation-but Pops being a cool guy had him on the sets of his late 80-early 90"s movies on FULL pay because he had a conscience. As for the behind the scenes stuff, there is one where Gordon is fighting Ko Fei (cool guy saw him on the M.T.R in H.K last year) and some broadsword wielding Chut Gar Dai Gee (with Ching dynasty pigtails wrapped round their heads???) that isnt in the movie in the 1st place. Ko Fei looks like he is playing a completely different character--younger and beardless. I believe this footage is from the 1981 version Pops tried to make under the title Heroic Family--certainly ALL the Fu Sheng footage was in the can in 81--check out the shots on the scans of Southern Screen editions June and July 1981 on the other Eight Diagram Pole Fighter thread posted yesterday. As for the Yang carried off (Siu Ho) I wouldn't believe a T.V series version of events as gospel truth (or do you believe Doctor Who is real and REALLY CAN TRAVEL THRU TIME) I cant see a patriotic anti Mongol soldier who's family has been brutally slain then happily marrying a Mongol??? My Information is not from the TV show. The Show and the Movie Eight Diagram Pole fighter all come from a novel where I'm getting my information from. There was a Yang general in the past but all these other stories are legends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member popsjnr Posted October 4, 2011 Member Share Posted October 4, 2011 The history is also known thru the Hung Kuen style, who have the pole form left by Yeung Ng Long, and the stories surrounding it are part myth and part reality. As a practioner of the style, I am fascinated by the background of this pole form, and Lau si-fu has all the history and if he doesn't show what happened to the other Yeung family member who gets taken...then I assume his fate is unknown. As for Gordon's real voice used in the Canto track, my android phone doesn't play the two clips posted today so when I get a chance I wiil compare my H.K. D.V.D versions and report what I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Fanboy1991 Posted October 5, 2011 Member Share Posted October 5, 2011 The history is also known thru the Hung Kuen style, who have the pole form left by Yeung Ng Long, and the stories surrounding it are part myth and part reality. As a practioner of the style, I am fascinated by the background of this pole form, and Lau si-fu has all the history and if he doesn't show what happened to the other Yeung family member who gets taken...then I assume his fate is unknown. As for Gordon's real voice used in the Canto track, my android phone doesn't play the two clips posted today so when I get a chance I wiil compare my H.K. D.V.D versions and report what I think. Just because the Yangs weren't a southern family doesn't mean they spoke Mandarin. The Yang family lived during the Song Dynasty where Middle Chinese was spoken the closet Chinese dialect to middle Chinese is Cantonese. Mandarin came about much later. Next Your are right that Myths and legends are combined but the Fourth brother did marry a mongol Princess that's a fact. Gordon Liu did dub his own voice as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member popsjnr Posted October 5, 2011 Member Share Posted October 5, 2011 How can anyone claim something as FACT from nearly a thousand years ago?? Were you there??? Show me proper historical evidence-not stories from a novel-and that's a different matter, there is NO mention in the Hung Gar history of the fate of the other Yeung gar member. As for the voice question... I haven't just started watching Shaws movies, I saw my 1st Shaws nearly 30 years ago and have written many reviews and articles on Shaws, in the now longtime defunct, Eastern Heroes magazine (and been quoted as a source in a Japanese book on H.K.cinema by Jiro Chino). I ADMIT it sounds like Gordon talking in Return to 36th-but not in Eight Diagram-so dont talk to me like I am an idiot for daring to disagree (like I said I am going to compare the voices when I get the chance) unless you want to do so to my face??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Killer Meteor Posted October 5, 2011 Member Share Posted October 5, 2011 How can anyone claim something as FACT from nearly a thousand years ago?? ? Historians do it all the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member popsjnr Posted October 5, 2011 Member Share Posted October 5, 2011 Historians Usually work with some sort of archaeological evidence-even the guy that discovered Troy used Homer's Iliad as a guide to find a place matching the description-where's the EVIDENCE of the fate of the other Yeung?? If the pops knew what had happened he would have made mention of it...in 2013 I am hoping to meet Lau si-fu and have a few questions about this movie to ask him and I will see if he knows the FACTUAL fate of this man Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member 18JadeArafats Posted October 5, 2011 Member Share Posted October 5, 2011 Speaking generally, history = written records ; archaeology = material culture only. There's a ludicrous amount of imperial records down to minutiae still extant from China - like individual governors and prefects of localities and things that occurred during their appointment. If historical records still exist for things that happened close to 3000 years ago, I'm sure there are records from the Sung-Yuan era. Whether or not they're absolutely accurate is a different matter. I'd like to think of the guy not as a bloodless representative of his nation and ethnicity but as a human being. Presented with a choice between being a lifelong prisoner (or worse) versus a diplomatic marriage with a princess who might even be hot, what would you choose? That's also the whole point of 8 Diagram Pole Fighter isn't it? Loyalty to the court vs. individual survival esp. when the court doesn't appreciate honest and loyalty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Fanboy1991 Posted October 5, 2011 Member Share Posted October 5, 2011 I agree with 18JadeArafats. Listen I am saying fact because the Yang Family are fictional my friend. The only Yang that is a fact is Yang Ye and the historical records don't mention his kids. Yang Ye according to the History of the Song Dynasty was captured by Khitans and starved to death. Now he was second in command to Pan Mei who never betrayed him. Overtime Novels, Temples and plays were made about him that added the family members. The pole fighting style was invented by the monks on Mount Wu Tai. People know they invented it because one emperor hired many temples to stop pirates from attacking China. The abbot of the Shaolin temple ranked his style the best and commented on the Wu Tai Monks Pole style. Later of course this style was introduced into your Hung Ga Kuen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member clfnole Posted October 5, 2011 Member Share Posted October 5, 2011 Baat Kwa Kwun indeed was a poling style and a very famous one at that. It was incorporated into a variety of southern styles not just hung gar. Jow Gar has a baat kwa kwun, Choy Lay Fut, etc... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member popsjnr Posted October 5, 2011 Member Share Posted October 5, 2011 The eight diagram pole was derived from the Yeung Gar Cheung Faht (spear techniques) hence the mid-section of the form's changeover from the usual Ying Yang pole grip to the standard grip for Hung Ying Cheung use i:e left hand leading...NO other pole form in Hung Gar has this changeover. It came from the breaking of Yeung Ng Long's spear to enter Ng Toi San temple...Mark Houghton (Lau Kar Leung's English disciple, and my unofficial kung fu uncle) and Lau Kar Yung (both men I have trained with and talked to at length) made a D.V.D instructional/movie with a slight variation of this story-there the spear blade is broken during Ng Long's escape. It's also the reason some Hung Kuen lineages tie red cloth to the end of the pole to remind them of the Hung Ying. My teacher Jim Uglow, a student of Lam Sai Wing's last disciple Chan Hon Chung, told me when I learned this pole form, that Ng Long broke the spearhead off himself so the Ng Toi monks would admit him. The Hung Gar spear form we practise also is very closely linked to the pole form and also is accredited to the Yeung family. Not one of the people I have met, including my kung fu uncles Kong Pui Wai (the.H.K.C.M.A.A President) or Lee Yun Fook (who does Tit Sin Kuen and Ng Long Baht Gwa Gwun on the H.K. D.V.D release of Challenge of the Masters) ever mentioned anyone other than Yeung Ng Long with the creation of this form, obviously it was bequeathed to the monks and was handed down to Bak Siu Lum Jee, where Gee Sin would have learned it, and then Gee Sin took it to Lam Siu Lum Jee. I know that other styles have a version of this pole form, most are connected to Gwong Dung Sap Fu and I assume it was passed to their ancestors who were part of it?? Again I ask for evidence regarding the fate of the other Yeung member, as above when I have talked to the masters I mentioned NOT ONE of them made ANY mention if the fate of this man...I am not interested in Yeung Yeh....just the historical evidence of this man's fate. As I said hopefully I will be able to meet Lau Kar Leung in 2013 and I will ask him...and report what he says about it on this forum...if you are right I will apologise okay??!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member masterofoneinchpunch Posted October 5, 2011 Member Share Posted October 5, 2011 ... Gordon Liu did dub his own voice as well. Has he said this? Where is the source for this (would be great to have)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Fanboy1991 Posted October 5, 2011 Member Share Posted October 5, 2011 I have read an article somewhere saying he did but I have never seen an interview where someone directly asked him this question. The only film I know for sure it's him is KILL BILL 1 and 2 cause its sounds exactly like him from his most recent interviews. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member popsjnr Posted October 6, 2011 Member Share Posted October 6, 2011 Yo Fanboy have to say I believe you are right..on comparing the Canto tracks on Pole Fighter and Return to 36th it does sound like Gordon has dubbed both. As for the rest of your argument I still dispute your statements Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Fanboy1991 Posted October 6, 2011 Member Share Posted October 6, 2011 Just ask Lau Kar Leung about the story details when you see him. Tell him all his American Fans say Hello. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member spannick Posted October 29, 2011 Member Share Posted October 29, 2011 just for anyone who wants to know, German Doc "TIGERKRALLE SCHLÄGT ZU" has behind the Scenes of this Movie and all the Movie Lines by the Cast are being spoken in Cantonese on-set. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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