Shapes and Aesthetics

[Fang Shih-yu]

We need to analyse this more why some people understand it and others don't... I'm sure science can provide an answer.

Sure, this can be analysed, but beyond behaviours relating to some aspect of psychology, isn't such a prospect as meaningful as a taste test? (Coke vs. Pepsi: SO BLOODY WHAT?!) It's OPINIONS about PREFERENCES; it's the stuff of daily/weekly rankings of TV shows, music, movies, etc. This idea must have a niche all its own in the category of "junk science"! With that in mind, shall "Mythbusters" tackle this topic? Jaime?... Adam?... Kari:kiss:?... We await your reply!http://www.shaolinchamber36.com/kungfufandom/uploads/emoticons/default_default/wink.png' alt=':wink:'> Interesting how falkor uses as an example of shapes a scene from..."Massacre Survivor", dangling it like a veritable carrot in front of those who have yet to partake in getting a copy of said film! Somewhere, P. T. Barnum is smiling....

[zeus]

i'm sure the producer ...directors emphasize on some movements just to make it look good ...wow factor... to sell more tickets..i don't think they where thinking is this accurate movement..how will poeple in 30 years see it as!!.exagerated movements is what make a movie exciting..like spaghetti westerns without music is just plain.

[Gaijin84]

With a bit of background information on the hoops and the realisation that Shih Szu has to avoid them throughout the end fight completely enhances the experience..

What is this "background information" you speak of?

[falkor]

What is this "background information" you speak of?

*The hoops have spikes (they aren't made of paper)

*The hoops are dangerous (Wang Chung is killed by them)

*Shih Szu has to avoid them at all costs

If you show that end sequence to anyone for the first time, they will be totally oblivious to the fact that pretty much all her actions are choreographed around avoiding the hoops. Once you understand that basic information, you can appreciate the fight scenes as per my previous comments.

[Gaijin84]

*The hoops have spikes (they aren't made of paper)

*The hoops are dangerous (Wang Chung is killed by them)

*Shih Szu has to avoid them at all costs

If you show that end sequence to anyone for the first time, they will be totally oblivious to the fact that pretty much all her actions are choreographed around avoiding the hoops. Once you understand that basic information, you can appreciate the fight scenes as per my previous comments.

Ahh - ok

I thought you were saying that the hoops were manufactured to be dangerous in real life and therefore enhances the scene because of the more inherent actual danger.

[shapes]

I am convinced that intelligence is an important factor in the appreciation of Kung Fu movies of the shapes period.

No that's total nonsense, I knew a 4 year who was obsessed by shapes -thats the honset to gods truth, he knew his stuff n' all. Martin Scorsese said on a doccumantary about HK films ,that " I knew these films were wonderful even though I could not understand what I was watching" (The films had subs) ,Martin Scorsese aint fick, u get me blud.

Remember " Don't think , feel."

[GoldenPigsy]

I am convinced that intelligence is an important factor in the appreciation of Kung Fu movies of the shapes period.

So you're a cognitive theorist as well as an art historian and expert on the broader humanities?

I have a friend who is a gifted singer, an excellent dancer and sketch artist. She appreciates everything from dance to jazz and can explain precisely what is going on in the brain as it experiences the ordered, spacial/aural stimulus of dance and music and art, because as well as being talented in the arts, she's a neuroscientist currently working as a research assistant. I could not get her to sit through Prodigal Son, Massacre Survivor or Eight Diagram Pole Fighter unless I tied her to a chair and peeled her eyelids back Clockwork Orange style. She's just not interested.

I'm not saying it's entirely a matter of taste -- although I think it largely is -- but that taste regulates the enjoyment of kung fu movies even for somebody who is quite inclined to appreciate visual patterns and athleticism. Intelligence is a loaded word; you really ought to be careful with it.

[Chinatown Kid]

I try not to over think or intellectualize it too much, I just love the feeling of excitement and adrenaline a good fight scene gives be it shapes, basher, or modern day. I love to watch fight scenes before I do my MA workouts, it really helps get me fired up, along with the Jack3d lol!

[lightning hopkins]

So you're a cognitive theorist as well as an art historian and expert on the broader humanities?

I have a friend who is a gifted singer, an excellent dancer and sketch artist. She appreciates everything from dance to jazz and can explain precisely what is going on in the brain as it experiences the ordered, spacial/aural stimulus of dance and music and art, because as well as being talented in the arts, she's a neuroscientist currently working as a research assistant. I could not get her to sit through Prodigal Son, Massacre Survivor or Eight Diagram Pole Fighter unless I tied her to a chair and peeled her eyelids back Clockwork Orange style. She's just not interested.

I'm not saying it's entirely a matter of taste -- although I think it largely is -- but that taste regulates the enjoyment of kung fu movies even for somebody who is quite inclined to appreciate visual patterns and athleticism. Intelligence is a loaded word; you really ought to be careful with it.

One of the best posts I've seen here in years.

You, mysterious sir, rock.

More please!

[falkor]

Kung Fu Movies are some of the most high speed and complex visuals you are ever likely to come across... it ain't for simple minds! I am willing to go further and say that the more simple a fight scene is, the more popular the movie probably is. The shapes period of the late 70s was the peak of Kung Fu Movies, yet ones of the early 70s and mid-80s were more popular because they are easier to follow. I bet if I showed Massacre Survivor to an autistic bloke, he would love it first time!

[Akuma]

Where are you going with this Falkor....

Just dragging your nonsense in this forum....We all love kung here, that's why we follow this forum.

I think you are just trying too damn hard to prove your theory on your understanding of shapes and dismissing others opinions.

I also love shapes and all other types of Kung and appreciate them all, after reading all the posts on this forum I just wanna comment on you instead -

I think your full of shit, you ask for peoples understanding and opinions on shapes, then reply and dismiss there views like as if your some big time scholar in this subject or topics and only you have the right answers. I usually dont diss man's behind a keyboard, but I gotta say this, YOU ARE A TWAT - YES YOU FALKOR, I think you just get pissed out of your head and chat shit on these forums sometimes.

We are all lovers of this classic genre, not just you alone.

Peace,

Akuma

[zeus]

kung fu movies suck!!!

[kungfusamurai]

Here's the answer Falkor's looking for:

"Yes, you are a kung fu movie god. We worship the ground you walk on. You're opinions on films like Born Invincible and Massacre Survivor are works of art and should be engraved in stone and displayed in the Louvre".

KFS

[sigis1]

Is falkor a pseudonym for Ric Meyers?

[Blacula]

Are we including Ninja Terminator in this discussion?

[BaronK]

What is a shapes?

[ThunderScore]

Are we including Ninja Terminator in this discussion?

Hey! Whoa...

[The Amazing Psycho Per]

With a bit of background information on the hoops and the realisation that Shih Szu has to avoid them throughout the end fight completely enhances the experience. The fight scene is no longer a blur of hoops and strikes, and instead all moves begin to be seen in context with one another, resulting in more "wow" moments:

Wow, she hit the guy with a crane strike through the hoop without getting cut (they also need to know what Crane Kung Fu looks like).

Wow, she avoided the hoops by diving through them backwards after first doing a back-flip and backroll.

Wow, she avoided a series of hoop strikes by performing 3 x 360 degree twists (one with her leg raised).

The above just cannot be appreciated without having the overview.

You can't really be that condescending.. You really think people are so stupid that don't realise she's trying to avoid the threat posed by the hoops? What else are we suppose to think, that they're mating??? Man you're beyond pretantious... Get off your pedestal, the altitude is making your head spin.

I bet if I showed Massacre Survivor to an autistic bloke, he would love it first time!

And by the way, autisme don't rhyme with super intelligence. Rain man is not a representative of autisme. The vast majority are just cut out of our reality. An educated man like you should know that...

[Omni Dragon]

kung fu movies suck!!!

how can you say something like that on a forum called 'Kung Fu Cinema'

What is a shapes?

this video is good at explaining the terms(Punch & Block aka Basher)

OKNryr5be4s

[thedirtytiger]

Yes, he is real - believe it or not.

[falkor]

Guys, I've simply put forward my hypothesis about Kung, and yet everyone is acting inferior. It's got nothing to do with me being better/worse than you or vice versa; it's about finding out the truth behind the understanding of shapes.

This is exactly what happened to galileo. He came out with a sound theory, but instead of trying to disprove it or look more at what he was saying, they simply took it out on the man himself.

You can't really be that condescending.. You really think people are so stupid that don't realise she's trying to avoid the threat posed by the hoops? What else are we suppose to think, that they're mating??? Man you're beyond pretantious... Get off your pedestal, the altitude is making your head spin.

I'm not on a pedestal or trying to be superior. What I am saying is proven... I've already tested Massacre on first time observers, and they do not understand. I wish they did! Again, this has nothing whatsoever to do with me vs. you (and who is better out of us).

Why can't we have a civilised discussion?

Here's my last response; I would encourage everyone to continue the discussion, but leave out personal attacks against me if that's not too much to ask?

Kung Fu Movies are some of the most high speed and complex visuals you are ever likely to come across... it ain't for simple minds! I am willing to go further and say that the more simple a fight scene is, the more popular the movie probably is. The shapes period of the late 70s was the peak of Kung Fu Movies, yet ones of the early 70s and mid-80s were more popular because they are easier to follow. I bet if I showed Massacre Survivor to an autistic bloke, he would love it first time!

[GoldenPigsy]

So far, all I've seen from you, falkor, is conjectural assertions and a real lack of critical thinking. You really think that Massacre Survivor is more visually complicated than the films of the eighties, with their utterly nutty editing schemes and cinematography? Really?

You just compared yourself to Galileo and you don't think you're putting yourself on a pedestal?

Seriously, you've done nothing to actually support your "thesis" outside of an unscientific survey, for which you expect us to take your word as to the results. It was you who brought intelligence into the matter. Basic logic disproves this. Your presupposition is that it takes intelligence to like shapes. But there are intelligent people who don't like these films and people of... let's say more modest intellect who enjoy them very much. Even if you could accurately survey fans to find the baseline for their intelligence, it wouldn't in any way indicate causality.

If you actually have a real argument about aesthetics beyond the obvious -- yes, it takes athletic skill to perform choreography that resembles a hyper-aggressive dance -- I have yet to see it. Please communicate more clearly, or perhaps broaden your sphere of interests so that you'll have a better idea of what constitutes meaningful aesthetics.

[falkor]

I might not have tested Massacre Survivor out on a 100 people, but when a lot of complex and unusual routines are being observed at very high speed, is it really so absurd to think this might demand a certain level/kind of intelligence coupled with some additional knowledge in order to understand and appreciate? What is so controversial about this?

You really think that Massacre Survivor is more visually complicated than the films of the eighties, with their utterly nutty editing schemes and cinematography? Really?

There is certainly nothing past the mid-80s that could be described as complicated/nutty, unless a person is so thick that it might push them to the next level (level 2) where a shapes appreciator is on level 50. What shapes level are you at do you think?

[Fang Shih-yu]

falkor, you are speaking of the popularity of the usage of shapes in a specific period of time for a certain grouping of martial arts movies; therefore, you are referring to MORE than ONE movie, and yet, you've only sited ONE movie so far: "Massacre Survivor". The only person who has referenced ANOTHER movie (by a picture) has been shapes. Please cite more examples from OTHER movies, please. "Massacre Survivor" CAN'T be the "end-all" of all the "shapes" movies you've seen....

[GOLDEN DRAGON YIN-YANG]

no way I will keep this post