The Big Boss - Original English Dub....

[Jeru the Damaja]

Or the 70th anniversary.. or 80th.. or 90th..

I honestly cant understand the whole issue with hoarders..

If the full uncut version is finally released one day.. it will be most likely be to a group of people who were not even around when the movie was originally released..

Or it will be lost forever when the hoarders kick the bucket.

On a side note.. one thing I could never understand was WHY the scene with Bruce purchasing prawn crackers and marching to the Boss's mansion while munching on the prawn crackers was CUT from many of the mainstream versions of the Big Boss!!?? This scene was definitely in the VHS version I owned as a kid back in the early 80s.

Did someone somewhere deem prawn crackers bad for your health?

If I'm not mistaken supposedly Bruce purchased the prawn crackers before going back to the brothel a second time. I think the theme was that he thought he was going to die so he wanted to have sex before kicking the bucket. It's all just speculation, but I'm guessing some kind of softcore sex scene took place. The reason the cut was made is because a hero is not suppose to stop and get laid before getting revenge. I personally think it's pretty awesome, but that's just me. This has become one of the most sought after scenes from the movie along with the saw in the head scene.

I'm interested to know if you still own this vhs version with the scene of Bruce purchasing the prawn crackers? Because if you do I'm sure there are a lot of people on this forum who would like to see it. Me included. No telling what other kind of goodies are on this.

[OldPangYau]

A lot of what I've read over the years is not that he bought the prawn crackers, but supposedly they were in the prostitute's room in the brothel. After she fell asleep and as he's getting dressed, he sees the bag and takes it. But this is only what I've read, who knows?

But speaking of the bag of prawn crackers... has anyone else noticed that in the shot where Cheng jumps over the fence in the finale that the bag disappears out of his hand... but of course back after he lands?

[Ninja Sinai]

Didn't one of the very early crappy US dvd releases of The Big Boss contain the prawn cracker scene?? Well so I was once told..

It was definitely in the vhs version I had back in the day.. as I remember I used to march to school after lunch munching on a bag of potato chips (the closest thing I could get to prawn crackers back in the day) acting all like Bruce Lee.

This has certainly got me curious.. as that was one of my fav scenes and I was disappointed when I got hold of the HKL version of the Big Boss and found the prawn cracker scene was no where to be found and completely missing!!

In fact I think im gonna go pay the old guy who used to own the video store a visit.. see if he has any kung fu movies let over.. I once remember speaking to his son a few years back and he told me that his father still had an original release of the Big Boss on Betamax from back in the early 80s collecting dust in the attic.

Lets see whats happens.. back in a few hours with an update people..

The Ninja is setting off on a mission!

[David Rees]

Having seen the uncut (all uncut but no saw scene) rare mandarin print in 1979 in London i can say that yes he does pick up the bag of prawn crackers in the brothel after the 2nd prostitute visit (nothing explicit about that scene) and then goes running to the bosses mansion.

As i have stated before the missing scenes arnt really that great, your not missing much. I would love to have it obviously but its nothing like the unseen Game footage which was unearthed. I would rather see the TVB tv appearances he made.

[Hsu Chien]

Yes, Bruce definitely picked up the bag of crackers (or crisps, who knows what they are!) from the bedside table in the prostitute's room, and he actually eats one before leaving the room. It's the same room that Malalene used so it's safe to assume that it's the same round, glass table visible in the earlier scene. An old issue of Kung Fu Monthly (#47 to be exact) said something about him buying them, but this is incorrect, so that's probably how that myth started.

David, the scenes probably aren't that spectacular, and may even prove to be rather disappointing (if they ever surface) after all the years of hype and speculation, but the fans would just like the opportunity to see for themselves the original version that Lo Wei intended. Not some shortened, watered down version that's been doing the rounds for decades. Why something that was made PUBLIC in the 1970s should still remain unseen by 99.9% of the fans in 2010 is mind-boggling to say the least.

[Ninja Sinai]

Well I just got back..

I went to the video shop owners house, knocked and his wife opened the door.

I asked for the "Master" and she asked my name and went to call him.

When he came to the door I smiled and politely introduced my self, but I could tell he was clearly annoyed. I told him that I dont think he will remember me, that when I was about five years old I used to come to his video shop every Saturday with my dad and he used to call me the 'Little Big Boss' due to the amount of times I used to rent out the Big Boss. He immediatley smiled and said he remembered. An asked how I was etc.

I told him the reason I called was to see if he had any kung fu movies left over, inc Bruce Lee movies, if possible I could take them off his hands and even buy them off him. He asked why I wanted them on vhs as most of them would be available on dvd now. I told him that I wanted them for sentimental reasons.

He said he had a few left over but sold most of them when he closed his shop. He told me to call around on Monday anytime after 6 and he will dig them out from the attic for me.

I know its hoping for too much.. but lets hope he has some gems still available!

When I was leaving he said to me, "When I first came to the door and saw you, the reason I looked angry was because I thought you were selling insurance."

lol

[Jeru the Damaja]

Well I just got back..

I went to the video shop owners house, knocked and his wife opened the door.

I asked for the "Master" and she asked my name and went to call him.

When he came to the door I smiled and politely introduced my self, but I could tell he was clearly annoyed. I told him that I dont think he will remember me, that when I was about five years old I used to come to his video shop every Saturday with my dad and he used to call me the 'Little Big Boss' due to the amount of times I used to rent out the Big Boss. He immediatley smiled and said he remembered. An asked how I was etc.

I told him the reason I called was to see if he had any kung fu movies left over, inc Bruce Lee movies, if possible I could take them off his hands and even buy them off him. He asked why I wanted them on vhs as most of them would be available on dvd now. I told him that I wanted them for sentimental reasons.

He said he had a few left over but sold most of them when he closed his shop. He told me to call around on Monday anytime after 6 and he will dig them out from the attic for me.

I know its hoping for too much.. but lets hope he has some gems still available!

When I was leaving he said to me, "When I first came to the door and saw you, the reason I looked angry was because I thought you were selling insurance."

lol

That's pretty cool I'll be crossing my fingers.

[Jeru the Damaja]

Having seen the uncut (all uncut but no saw scene) rare mandarin print in 1979 in London i can say that yes he does pick up the bag of prawn crackers in the brothel after the 2nd prostitute visit (nothing explicit about that scene) and then goes running to the bosses mansion.

As i have stated before the missing scenes arnt really that great, your not missing much. I would love to have it obviously but its nothing like the unseen Game footage which was unearthed. I would rather see the TVB tv appearances he made.

I can't speak for everyone else, but I know the Big Boss 100% uncut is number one on my Bruce Lee lost footage list. Whether it's horrible or not I just want to see it before I die. The Big Boss is my favorite Bruce movie, and the fans deserve to see a movie 40yrs old in all it's uncut glory. Like Ninja Sinai said when/if it does finally become available it will be to people who could care less about the movie or Bruce Lee. For we will all be in our 90's.

The Game of Death is second on my Bruce Lee want list. If indeed there is outdoor footage with Bruce kicking butt that made it to film. I want to see it. If the full Dan Inosanto fight with Cheh Yuen and the large club exists. I want to see it. They need to rerelease the A Warrior's Journey documentary with all this footage. Make it a two disc special edition with all the outtakes, stills, tv spots, etc. on disc 2. I don't even care about the crappy movie they threw together.

By the way when are Bruce's movies even going to get a proper release in the US. The Hong Kong Legends dvds I understand were terrific. The only movie to get proper treatment in the US of course was Enter the Dragon. I want the Big Boss, Fists of Fury, and Way of the Dragon uncut special editions.

[greenbamboo]

Ted Thomas owned the company that dubbed Bruce's movies. He dubbed voices on the first english dub for Big Boss that was later redone. George Tan interviewed Lo Wei back in the 1980s and told me he had so much audio recorded material that he could easily do a Lo Wei commentary for his 2003 dvd release of Big Boss Original English Dub that was stopped. This version doesn't contain any new unseen/missing scenes which are found in the original Mandarin release.

[Ninja Sinai]

All this talk of missing and lost footage.. the Ninja is gonna throw something out their..

Back in the day when I used to hire out the Bruce Lee films from the local video shop.. im talking early 80s, on some of them.. before the credits started.. their would be a very short scene of Bruce Lee standing directly facing the camera bare chested in front of a black background from the waist up, the he would showcase some of his nunchucka skills.. then end with a pose with the nunchuckas.. and then the movie credits would begin.

In all my years I have only EVER met one other guy who remembers also watching this intro scene on the vhs of the Bruce Lee movies.

It seemed the shot was filmed exclusively as some sort of a teaser before the movies would start.

Anyone else ever remember seeing this????

Also im really looking forward to Monday to see what the Master still has laying around.. I do have a vhs to dvd machine so any vhs I can transfer straight away to dvd.. however if he does still have an original betamax of the Big Boss.. I have no idea how im gonna get that converted.. but best not to get too happy just yet.. he may just have an original copy of the Karate Kid left! lol

[Hsu Chien]

I think the short nunchaku sequence you're referring to was the one at the start of the pre-cert UK Game Of Death video. It was a scene from Way Of The Dragon, but was silent, to minimise the effect (the uncut version has sound). However, when the film was classified and rereleased on video in 1986, the clip was cut completely. It was reinstated in 2001 for UK DVD of course.

As for the Betamax Big Boss tape you saw in the early '80s, well, I've got the pre-cert UK Betamax tape and it is identical to the censored VHS release. And as has been stated in previous posts, Bruce never actually bought the prawn crackers anyway; he picked them up from a table in the prostitute's room. As far as is known, the last time this particular sequence was publicly seen was when a 35mm print was screened in London in December 1979.

[Ninja Sinai]

I think the short nunchaku sequence you're referring to was the one at the start of the pre-cert UK Game Of Death video. It was a scene from Way Of The Dragon, but was silent, to minimise the effect (the uncut version has sound).

It definitely cant have been that as the clip im on about def had sound and Bruce was bare chested standing in front of a plain black background.

An I def wasn't at the beginning of the Game of Death as that was the only Bruce Lee film (if you can call it a Bruce Lee film) that I saw really late when I was about 10 years old. Where as all the others I was watching regularly since I was about 4 years old.

As for the Betamax Big Boss tape you saw in the early '80s, well, I've got the pre-cert UK Betamax tape and it is identical to the censored VHS release.

Daaamn.. I was getting my hopes up too.. I guess if he does have the Betamax copy I should give it a miss then.. as what am I gonna do with a Betamax.. but if has a vhs copy will def take that off his hands.

Bruce never actually bought the prawn crackers anyway; he picked them up from a table in the prostitute's room. As far as is known, the last time this particular sequence was publicly seen was when a 35mm print was screened in London in December 1979.

I guess my mind may be playing tricks on me thinking I saw Lee buy the prawn crackers from a guy with a cart on the side of a road.. but one thing I know for sure 100% was watching Lee march to the Boss's mansion in a mean mood munching on the prawn crackers, which were in a brown bag. Now this scene is missing.. and I cant understand why this was cut??

[Ninja Sinai]

Just pulled out my HKL copy of The Big Boss and put into the dvd player.. and in the comm Bey Logan says, a little scene thats in some prints of the movie sees Lee going to a stall and buy prawn crackers. If anyone wants to listen to it, its at 1:26:05s.

So maybe the Ninjas mind wasn't playing tricks on him and I did see him actually buy them from a stall?

[Karlos]

Just pulled out my HKL copy of The Big Boss and put into the dvd player.. and in the comm Bey Logan says, a little scene thats in some prints of the movie sees Lee going to a stall and buy prawn crackers. If anyone wants to listen to it, its at 1:26:05s.

So maybe the Ninjas mind wasn't playing tricks on him and I did see him actually buy them from a stall?

I'm sure I've seen this scene too, NS.

Kudos to you for all the leg-work you're putting in, by the way - hope it all pays off for you!!

[Hsu Chien]

Just pulled out my HKL copy of The Big Boss and put into the dvd player.. and in the comm Bey Logan says, a little scene thats in some prints of the movie sees Lee going to a stall and buy prawn crackers. If anyone wants to listen to it, its at 1:26:05s.

I'm a big fan of Bey and his commentaries, but he made a few mistakes during that one, e.g. he states on more than one occasion that the film was made in 1970. He had also never (at that point anyway) seen the original, longer version. He didn't mention the significant missing scene in the alleyway involving the pushcart attack at all - if he had seen the original, surely he would have mentioned that too? Check out the commentary on the Platinum Edition UK DVD which came out in 2006. The two guys doing it (Andrew Staton and Will Johnston) saw the aforementioned 35mm print in London in 1979, and confirmed that Bruce picks up the crackers from the bedside table. They also talk about the cart scene in some detail. Oddly though, neither of the commentaries mentions that Peter Thomas composed the great funky soundtrack, very strange...

[OldPangYau]

Yeah, I talked to Bey Logan before and surprised him with some of my Big Boss trivia The 1970 date, I think, probably stemmed from Dragon: The Bruce Lee Story, which also literally said on screen that filming was in 1970... and we all know how accurate THAT movie was

It was summer '71! Just read "Letters of the Dragon"!

He also mentioned in the commentary how he couldn't figure out how, if Lee injured one of his ankles during the final fight, he was able to do the leg locking scene with Hang Ying Chieh near the end. If anything, those shots and the shots of HYC pinning Lee down were shot at a later date in an open field surrounded by trees... there are various photos to back this as well, including an American lobby card!

[Killer Meteor]

Oddly though, neither of the commentaries mentions that Peter Thomas composed the great funky soundtrack, very strange...

I think that info has only recently come to light. Every print just credits Wang Fu Liang.

[chen lung]

Talking of 'Dragon: The Bruce Lee Story', I entered this a while back:

When Bruce and Linda are at the October 1971 Hong Kong premiere of 'Big Boss', the wrong version is playing. It was the Mandarin-language print (with English/Chinese subtitles, no credits and finishing with 'The End') that played. In the film, it's the 'National General Pictures' version which was created in 1973, two years after the HK premiere (evidence of this is the English credits and soundtrack).

[OldPangYau]

Talking of 'Dragon: The Bruce Lee Story', I entered this a while back:

When Bruce and Linda are at the October 1971 Hong Kong premiere of 'Big Boss', the wrong version is playing. It was the Mandarin-language print (with English/Chinese subtitles, no credits and finishing with 'The End') that played. In the film, it's the 'National General Pictures' version which was created in 1973, two years after the HK premiere (evidence of this is the English credits and soundtrack).

Actually, the National General Pictures version has no end credits... just the shot of the police carting Cheng away, then cuts to the "Presented by National General Pictures" screen. The version they used was the same print Fox used for their various releases (laserdisc, DVD, etc). I think some export prints had the English end credits. Either way, they certainly would not be watching an English language film.

[Killer Meteor]

Actually, the National General Pictures version has no end credits... just the shot of the police carting Cheng away, then cuts to the "Presented by National General Pictures" screen. The version they used was the same print Fox used for their various releases (laserdisc, DVD, etc). I think some export prints had the English end credits. Either way, they certainly would not be watching an English language film.

Interestingly: in both Bruce Lee The Man The Myth and Dragon, Fist Of Fury gets no visual reference at all. In both, we see Bruce making Big Boss and Enter The Dragon, and in the former we see him making Way of the Dragon, and in the latter, we see a brief clip as he is editing. But Fist Of Fury gets zip - unless we count Mars mentioning it.

[Fist Of Boss]

It ultimately comes always into this;no proof...

I am too tired to care anymore who have seen this in london 1979 or old vhs tape..you guys have no evidence but your word only...

And I do not buy it,no personal offence..Time does tricks to memory.

[greenbamboo]

over 1,700 bruce lee fans were at that 1979 london convention put on by Kung Fu Monthly (big worldwide selling bruce lee mag which made Felix Dennis millions) so yes that uncut Mandarin version was shown (no saw-in-head scene). Carl Jones who has just released his clones book was there. Others like Steve Kerridge, well known in the bruce lee community, David Rees who posts here etc....etc......Anyway everyone has seen the original BOSS trailer that features missing scenes e.g. 2nd prostitute scene.

KFM no. 53 ""It's vital that I tell you the following disastrous news. Once the reels that we were showing wear out (and already they're looking somewhat 'tired') I'm told there can NEVER be any replacements! That's not the case with the usual, English dialogue, censored version - just the uncut originals. Therefore, what we were showing is a slice of history that will quite soon disappear for ever!"

[Fist Of Boss]

ok,maybe it indeed exists.And big MAYBE someone has it on dvd.but it`s chasing ghosts..

I dun care it anymore

[hutchy1111]

Hi all,

I'm sure many of you are aware of Steve Kerridge. He has said that the 'Saw in the head' scene does exist. Why would he tell lies?

Below is his answer to the question about the uncut version of The Big Boss.

http://littledragon.builtfree.org/kerridge.html

3/ Firstly, rumours have it you have an uncut Big Boss print with saw scene and you know the other scenes exist still with prositute etc. Is this true and please confirm that the "saw" scene exists?!

Secondly, when the hell can we fans see this if it does exist?

Thirdly, when is the next BL convention in London please? Loved the last one, itching for more. Scratch me please!!

Lastly, thank God you are saying to yourself, BBC doc/interview on the set of ETD, exists, speculations, or really is still out there some where? Bring it to us and you will be bigger to us BL fans than Robbie Williams when he was good.

Greg P

Steve Kerridge : Well.... i can assure you that YES the saw scene does exist, and cannot say anything else on the matter... believe me i've been approached by Hong Kong Legends and a few others who will pay good money, but because of my word, i will not bend..Convention ? Well...that could be around the corner, really depends on what happens over the next 6 to 8 months..BBC interview ..hmmm ..well, i have hunted this phantom footage with every effort possible and my conclusion is - It never existed in the first place...sorry to disappoint... and no one is bigger than Robbie hehe..

[Jeru the Damaja]

Hi all,

I'm sure many of you are aware of Steve Kerridge. He has said that the 'Saw in the head' scene does exist. Why would he tell lies?

Below is his answer to the question about the uncut version of The Big Boss.

http://littledragon.builtfree.org/kerridge.html

3/ Firstly, rumours have it you have an uncut Big Boss print with saw scene and you know the other scenes exist still with prositute etc. Is this true and please confirm that the "saw" scene exists?!

Secondly, when the hell can we fans see this if it does exist?

Thirdly, when is the next BL convention in London please? Loved the last one, itching for more. Scratch me please!!

Lastly, thank God you are saying to yourself, BBC doc/interview on the set of ETD, exists, speculations, or really is still out there some where? Bring it to us and you will be bigger to us BL fans than Robbie Williams when he was good.

Greg P

Steve Kerridge : Well.... i can assure you that YES the saw scene does exist, and cannot say anything else on the matter... believe me i've been approached by Hong Kong Legends and a few others who will pay good money, but because of my word, i will not bend..Convention ? Well...that could be around the corner, really depends on what happens over the next 6 to 8 months..BBC interview ..hmmm ..well, i have hunted this phantom footage with every effort possible and my conclusion is - It never existed in the first place...sorry to disappoint... and no one is bigger than Robbie hehe..

The big question is who did he give his word to, and who is it that is blocking this footage from being released to the fans? Linda Lee?????????????